[TYPO3-hci] BE vs FE

[Waldemar Kornewald]

Hi,

On 8/3/06, JoH <info at cybercraft.de> wrote:
> In TYPO3 it's
> "create new record" -> "News Item"
> "create new record" -> "Page"
> or if you prefer to stay in the page view
> "click icon" -> "new" -> Content"
> "click icon" -> "new" -> Page"
>
> So what's the big difference?

Actually, the *conceptual* difference is not very big (apart from
content records). It's just the visual representation:
http://www.menttes.com/contribs/plone01.png

Plone:
The "add new item" function is easy to find: at the top and visually
separated from less important functions. Still, its position might
imply that "add new item" will add the item to the current *page*, not
folder. So, it's not perfect, either, but it works for
trail-and-success.

TYPO3:
Despite its importance for creating (e.g.) news items, the "Create new
record" function is hidden at the bottom of the page between "Create
shortcut to page" and "Advanced Functions" such that some users might
not even notice its existance.

Also, record creation requires one additional page reload (compared to
Plone) although the creation dialog does not contain more information
than Plone's drop-down list.

After having created an initial news item (or note or ...) a new
section in the Page view appears.
* This section does not offer a quick-add button for news. You have to
"click news icon" -> "new" or use "Create new record", again.
* It's not visually separated from other sections (different
background color or at least a horizontal line). You don't even know
if Search affects all records or just the news records.

The "Add record after this one" button's meaning is not obvious just
from looking at the icon (where exactly will the content be placed?).
Here is an improved interface:
http://t3test.xetpoint.com/media/development/backendediting6.png
If the "Add Content" button were exactly in the middle between two
records the insertion position would be even more obvious.

In Plone, you don't have to enter the date, your name, and email in
every item because that data has default values (date=now,
name+email=you). Of course, you can change those values by going to
the "Properties" tab. What about using the same approach in TYPO3 and
just move less important fields into an extra tab (many CMSes do it
that way)?

BTW, what's the difference between "Date/Time" and "Archive date" (for
news items)?

> > Maybe that's the problem with my previous suggestions. So, what about
> > me only making suggestions about how to improve the interface without
> > doing any radical changes? Andreas Balzar already posted a nice mockup
> > for a new BE which wouldn't introduce too radical changes, but still
> > make everything more intuitive.
> >
> > Or, what do you think about the problem that the left column in the BE
> > affects the right column (instead of the middle column)? Shouldn't
> > those page buttons be converted to tabs and moved to the right column?
>
> There is nothing new with this mockup except this ugly colored boxes in the
> right frame and the dropdowns for the topmenu.

You forgot that it also changes the way you switch a page's view mode
(if I understood the mockup correctly). It's important that actions
are placed at the location where something will happen. TYPO3's
buttons for Web views (Page, View, List, etc.) are misplaced in that
they don't indicate which column will be reloaded. Don't you think it
would be better if those buttons were moved to the right column, so
they behave like tabs for switching the view mode?

I mean, is there no TYPO3 UI guideline that says "don't place buttons
on the other end of the screen"?

> If you prefer the main menu to stay on top, go to your user setup and change
> the selectbox "Select navigation mode".
> You can even choose between a selectbox on top of the frame or a set of
> icons.
> Normally this is used if your screen resolution isn't very high, so that you
> don't waste too much space for the left frame.

Well, that was not the point of my suggestion. The button placement
needs some improvements.

> Try it, even though it's just another one out of many differenct "concepts"
> to choose from ;-)

Let's choose the best and make it default. ;)

Bye,
Waldemar Kornewald