[TYPO3-core] RFC: Templavoila + Core fixes

[Kasper Skårhøj]

>
> Kasper Sk?rh?j wrote:
>> It is highly unlikely that you want 457 and 456 to be
>> translOriginal's of 123,124 while presenting them in another order!
>
> The main point here (and there is a bug report about it!) that TV must
> place localized element in right order when it _creates_ this element.

Fantastic! There you see what confusion and double-maintenance this  
approach leads to! This is more ammunition to promoting my  
langDisabled=1 based concepts where this is simply never going to  
happen.
So what do you propose: When a record is moved below another in the  
default language, do you like templavoila to automatically change the  
order of the localization in the vDA container? See how complex and  
terrible it becomes?

>
>>> I think the traditional way of localization should get used for
>>> getting a linkage between
>>> the CE's (so you know which CE in german is the translation of
>>> which CE in the default language)
>>> but still the order of elements should get derived from their order
>>> in the flexform-field.
>>
>> That is what I call "highly unlikely" need :-) I think localization
>> schemes are complex enough (proven by this discussion) and my
>> experience from advanced real-world needs (Dassault) is that we must
>> recommend the simplest possible way with a good set of features.
>
> Sorry, Kasper, I would agree with Bernhard on this because I have a  
> use
> case :( Having it all in flexform still allows to use inheritance but
> also allows to insert extra content to the localized page.

"Insert extra" or "change order of existing". If you want to "Insert  
Extra" that is definitely possible in the "Disabled" mode for a  
container - just insert an element and set language to "RU" or  
whatever - it is only displayed when you display russian then.
"Change order of existin" - yes, _that_ is only possible with  
Inheritance or Separate modes - but as you can see someone filed a  
bug-report about this exact thing; my point is that changing the  
order in different languages of localizations 1-1 is highly unlikely  
and leads to more sorrows and complexities of maintenance than it is  
worth! (And even if you wanted it you could actually break the  
translOriginal binding of the localized record and just insert it  
with a relation on the page where you wanted it, so there is a  
workaround for the occasional need).

> I strongly
> needed this in one project, where additional information was placed
> between two common parts for one language.

Possible. See above.

> It cannot be supported in
> inheritance mode unless flexform contains references to localized
> elements for non-default language.

Agree, but...

> If we do not put references there, I
> would have to use "separate" mode in such case and loose all links
> between some common parts.

no... "Disabled" mode is an alternative as documented above.

>
> We all have our own experience, we just need to combine it all into  
> one
> to make the best solution that works in all cases (if it is possible).
> May be your idea about TSConfig can solve it.


I think a TSconfig can provide support for _both_ approaches. But I  
am still of the opinion that my approach is the best balance between  
low complexity/highest feature set. None of yours and Bernhards cases  
have yet shown me something that my approach doesn't cover. But I do  
understand very well that we must find a solution that supports your  
existing installations!

In my eyes this whole "conflict" has arisen because I haven't written  
that localization guide before now. If we had that document two years  
ago we wouldn't need to support different approaches.

- kasper


>
> Dmitry.
> - --
> "It is our choices, that show what we truly are,
> far more than our abilities." (A.P.W.B.D.)
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- kasper

"A contribution a day keeps the fork away"
-------------------------------
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