[TYPO3-english] TYPO3 6.0 at the corner? How is it possible

Oliver Hader oliver.hader at typo3.org
Mon Mar 5 19:14:28 CET 2012

Hi Mathias,

thanks for your feedback on this hot topic. First of all, this is an
individual post - just me. Trust me, the decision of mentioning a number
like "6.0" was not easy and took a lot of hours and days to think about.
However it's strange to read (as a general feedback from all responses)
that there is a demand for a CTO/CEO that steers TYPO3, but on the other
hand the demand for more democratic decision. Well, I don't think one
single person can act democratic for all thoughts and requirements. The
thing we have now is a compromise between a one-man-show and discussing
everything with everybody and never coming to an end.

However, now that the information is spread, it's required to listen,
but also to stay constructive and to not mix up things. The "6.0" is
basically about chances for the product you currently know as TYPO3 v4,
it's not about "THE Association", not about the "waste of money", not
about expectations and not about being disappointed by waiting longer
for Phoenix/5.0...

Am 05.03.12 17:25, schrieb Mathias Bolt Lesniak, LiliO Design:
> This seems to be reflected in the communication too: Decisions must be clearly communicated. As others have mentioned, Robert's blog is not the place for that kind of communication, but it's not only Robert's task to make sure the information gets out.
> Xavier's reply to Milicev's e-mail another place in this thread is symptomatic of a different kind of issue:
>     Question: "How to explain to the 62 year old guy, director of the board, where v5 vaporized"
>     Answer: "Just point him to the articles..."
> Sorry, but that's plain disrespectful! No TYPO3 agency is going to live long if it just asks the clients to read these kind of articles. TYPO3 is there not ultimately for the agencies, but for their clients. With Xavier's attitude, TYPO3 will die: Agencies won't be able to sell the product, no matter how good it is.

Sorry, but this does not help. Taking exactly one line out of the
context to blame a very active member of the TYPO3 community looks very
unfair to me. Maybe you have a general problem with the TYPO3
Association and the fact how decisions have been made in the past, now
or maybe in the future - but using Xavier as a symptomatic example that
fit's your personal picture and create a generalization of "the evil" is
just awkward!

Here's the full context again:

| Milicev: And I already made ton's of offers for
| clients, covering v5 support.
| Xavier: That's really interesting :)

| Milicev: Now what? How to explain to the 62 year old guy, director of
| the board, where v5 vaporized
| Xavier: Just point him to the articles...

Did you realize the smiley in the first section? For me (personally) it
looks strange that somebody already sells service level agreements on
Phoenix/5.0 at a time when it was not finally released, yet... I think
that's kind of funny, don't you?

> To conclude, these are important points for me:
>     - Keeping on changing names and numbers is bad PR. Don't do it!

Well, I understand that on the first look it might be confusing for you.
But give it some time to grow and what is possible with the change -
it's very well explained in Xavier's blog post...

>     - A clear five year plan is needed for all TYPO3 related projects.

A roadmap is required, that's true - but not a clear and detailed five
year plan. Five years back from now, nobody used iPhones - but think
about how that changed the live of content delivery. So, a roadmap needs
to state a common vision but also needs to be flexible...

>     - Phoenix must also be called TYPO3, or people will think it's two different things.

Why not? TYPO3 [SomeNewName] 1.0, and "TYPO3" being a maker brand...
whatever [SomeNewName] will be, it's sure that the root was and is based
in TYPO3.

>     - Version numbers should continue straight into Phoenix. (No Phoenix 1.0, please.)

That's exactly the point of expectations... if you expect that TYPO3 4.7
can directly be upgraded to Phoenix/5.0 - than this is wrong.
Phoenix/5.0 was written from scratch and this is know for a long time
already. Thus, your extensions like tt_news won't work anymore with
Phoenix/5.0 - you can work with the new paradigms like MVC in
Extbase/Fluid, you can migrate some of the contents and your domain
models. But that's it...

>     - Like from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X the switch to Phoenix should be the next natural step, and maintaining both cores should only be done for a finite number of years.

Well, since Phoenix/5.0 is not finally released yet and since there are
not that many packages (extensions) available as for the current TYPO3
v4, it might be difficult to plan the end of v4. The Berlin Manifesto
already stated that v4 and Phoenix/5.0 (take the technology behind each,
not the name tags) will live side-by-side for some time.
I guess, the product you currently earn money with, is TYPO3 v4 - and I
assume that you'd be quite shocked if you would hear something like
"TYPO3 v4 dies in 2013 or 2014" - good that this is not the case.
However, if the acceptance and feature-set for Phoenix/5.0 exceeds v4
it's time to think about this topic again...

>     - Resources should be spent on making TYPO3 look better from the outside. (More money to PR)
>     - Although TYPO3 is "free" I'm not against paying a voluntary fee per site to sponsor TYPO3 development and PR, as long as projects don't linger in development for ever (so I can show clients what they pay for).

I'm just picking your "so I can show clients what they pay for"... I not
all of your clients are member of the TYPO3 Association and in general
they pay you for your knowledge and services, don't they? Putting a
license fee on a product is somehow against the principles of TYPO3 and
being a community driven project...

> I agree with you, Markus: It's now or never!

It is, but in terms of a chance - for both products TYPO3 Phoenix/5.0
and TYPO3 v4/"6.0".

Oliver Hader
TYPO3 v4 Core Team Leader

TYPO3 .... inspiring people to share!
Get involved: http://typo3.org

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