[TYPO3-content-rendering] CSS Styled Imgtext

[JoH]

>> Well - I always wanted to start a discussion about that, but I never
>> did because I'm pretty sure this will lead to a flame war.
>
> it has to be discussed sometime ;)
>
>> But I don't see much sense in span-tags too.
>
> good argument. I'd prefer spans though. but what makes sense then?
>
>> Well - this is partly true. It is possible to make something as
>> "accessible" as possible with pure TS.
>
> mail me your setup ;P
>
>> Of course there is a way - and the name is <table>. :-P
>
> true. but in modern times tables are not necessary.
> plus: its semantically not correct.
> tables should be used for tabular data, not for layouting purposes.
> thats what they are for.

Then explain why the W3C and the BITV are considering using layout tables
too ... ;-)
And semantically you got tabular data. A number of images plus corresponding
captions in rows and columns.
What could be more "tabular"?

>> The only thing that made the original "oldschool" IMGTEXT
>> "inaccessible" was the use of clear.gif for spacing. This makes it
>> very hard for screenreaders to "read" the images since they can't
>> decide if the "image" should be seen (heard) by the user or if it'
>> just a spacer.
>
> if there is an empty alttext given the reader wont read it. if there
> are any around that read the images with alt="" then I dont think
> they are in use as the users will get annoyed in the current webs
> state...

Well - you got four additional table cells around the real image so you were
not able to "read" the table linearized.
And this is why the original IMGTEXT is not very accessible.

>> You can still do a working crossbrowser and platform compatible
>> IMGTEXT using IMAGE and TEXT with some split and intelligent
>> wrapping.
>
> unfortunately not all typo3 users are that intelligent ;) as I also
> dont know about this splitting/wrapping I want an EXT!
>
>> The result will be a <div>-container with properly formatted Text
>> and one floated table containing the images and their captions
>> and/or links.
>
> ok, that makes sense. so in the table there will be just the image and
> its caption? the bodytext is not in the table? plz. mail me that
> setup...anyways, still...there should be an EXT

Of course you can put that "intelligent wrapping" into an EXT.
No problem with that.

>> I think we don't have to "develop" real code here but we have to
>> "develop" a better understanding of what "accessible" really means.
>
> I /think/ I know what I am talking about. When it comes to
> accessibility everyone has his/her own point of view.
> 4ex: you want to use tables, go for it. I dont want them. End of
> discussion ;) - you cant convince me, I cant convince you. You are
> right but I am as well.
>
>> Neither the W3C has problems with layout tables nor the German BITV.
>> And especially in this case they are IMHO the only way to go if you
>> don't want to hassle with umpteen different divs floating and
>> clearing around.
>
> I claim a span around every image should do the job. plus one for the
> captiontext. plus a span around the whole image-array including
>   caption. end. there has to be just hassled once by one developer.
> but thats the case for any extension.

Show me a working solution with floated and cleared elements only, that will
display correctly in Opera 6+ too.

>> I know that "accessibility" is not just about screenreaders but about
>> different media too.
>> But hey guys: This is what Content Management is all about! You have
>> to deliver stuff the right way for different media. And this is why
>> we got conditions and detection of useragents in TYPO3.
>> So if you have to display something on a PDA simply use a different
>> layout and i.e. override the "columns" value with a default of 1.
>
> I dont like hassling around with that on every project I do ;)

You don't have to. Use an EXT.

>> So now that you know my point of view - may the flaming begin ;-)
>
> your point of view is definitely right...but mine isn't wrong either.
> I just want to make it easy for everyone. thats what EXTs are for at
> the end.
> no more flaming as I think the time is better used at another end -
> the EXT...
>
> I hope you are wrong and this wont end in an endless discussion.

Well - there's "a new hope" but there's a "phantom menace" too ;-)

Joey

-- 
Wenn man keine Ahnung hat: Einfach mal Fresse halten!
(If you have no clues: simply shut your knob sometimes!)
Dieter Nuhr, German comedian
openBC: http://www.openbc.com/go/invuid/Jo_Hasenau