[TYPO3-commerce] Commerce blues or Why I am switching to tt_products:

[Ralf Merz]

Aiiyyhh,

sorry Robert. Of course I mean

Regards
Ralf

That comes from doing several things at once. :)
So I´ll practise again:

Regards
Ralf


On 2009-09-08 18:38:08 +0200, Ralf Merz <ralf at ralf-merz.de> said:

> Hi Robert,
> 
> thanks for your post. Sounds nice! ;) You gave a warm helping hand to zylonne.
> About the book: no, I´m not going to be the author. I also look forward 
> to this.
> At the weekend I´ll be on T3CON09 and will talk to the author. I´m 
> curious what the conference will bring in cases of commerce.
> 
> Regards
> Robert
> 
> On 2009-09-08 14:59:12 +0200, Bob Wild <rowild at gmx.net> said:
> 
>> There will be a book? Are you going to be the author, Ralf? Will it 
>> also be published at OpenSourcepress like tt_products?
>> 
>> Looking forward to this!
>> 
>> As for zyklonne's post: I do feel with you! Really! commerce has 
>> serious troubles and it is questionable why bugs that already have 
>> solutions are STILL NOT in the actual SVN (like attribute selectors). 
>> And it is very annoying that the menu - even though from many people 
>> mentioned here - still has severe troubles with recognizing active 
>> states etc.
>> 
>> Very troublesome, too, is the template setup, which for some reason 
>> doesn't collaborate with TS as one is used from other extensions...
>> 
>> On the other hand: the docu - even though not mentioning everything - 
>> is very good! Really! It points out very nicely how to install what, 
>> how to use it (with good hands-on examples) and gives very good hints 
>> as to what has to be paid attention to. Just take some time and read it.
>> 
>> Ingo just told me in a recent mail that "soon" there will be some 
>> maintenance works done. He considers the status quo as pretty close to 
>> final - so let's see what comes up next!
>> 
>> Zyklonne - take some time off from commerce, look into tt_products or 
>> trade or webformat! (I dare to say that you will soon realize that none 
>> of those systems work as much "out of the box" and "under one roof" as 
>> commerce does.) But come back to this list and keep sharing your 
>> experience with us! Even though your are desperate about the ext your 
>> experience is quite valuable to the community!
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Robert
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi zylonne,
>>> 
>>> how often do you plan to "retweet" this message?
>>> I think your post did not get an answer because you are saying that 
>>> you´ll going to be offlist now.
>>> 
>>> So replying to someone who isn´t there anymore doesn´t make much sense.
>>> 
>>> I feel sorry for your anger about the commerce Extension. There are 
>>> still years old bugs, but the base core of commerce gives you a really 
>>> good shop framework that is very flexible, in my opinion. Of course, 
>>> this flexibility makes this extension also to be complex in some ways.
>>> 
>>> Demanding a 100% working code of a developer fitting all needs is not 
>>> the right way in my view, but trying to help and give thanks would help 
>>> everyone much more.
>>> 
>>> Well, if you think commerce is not the right thing for you, feel free 
>>> to try other things.
>>> But, I also want to thank you for your post. There is much truth in it. 
>>> You wouldn´t have written it, if you haven´t had a reason for it.
>>> But to tell people not to install it is a bit hard. I´ve installed 
>>> commerce on a production server a few weeks ago without any problems. 
>>> Well, I have to say that I know commerce since 3 years now, but such a 
>>> long experience is not needed with commerce to install it.
>>> 
>>> There will be a book about commerce, I say "soon", as I don´t know the 
>>> exact time. Maybe this will help you.
>>> 
>>> Have fun
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Ralf Merz
>>> 
>>> On 2009-09-08 09:25:16 +0200, zylonne <zylonne at web.de> said:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> How I wish I had read a post like this before wasting literally weeks of my
>>>> time on typo3 commerce.  I bet that there are a lot of people out there like
>>>> me, who see the commerce extension and think, hmm, maybe worth a try.  Let
>>>> this posting be a warning to you! Here we go:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. The Installation:
>>>> You can bring down your whole server just by clicking on "install this
>>>> extension". No dependency checks are made, and there are a LOT of
>>>> dependencies. Install all those extensions in the wrong order, and you will
>>>> have a blank screen, I mean, no Front End, NO BACKEND, NO TYPO3! Do not ever
>>>> install commerce  on a production server for the first time unless you think
>>>> it is fun desperately googling for help during a few panic stricken minutes
>>>> while your whole site is down.
>>>> 
>>>> 2. Select Attributes:
>>>> For some reason the developers of commerce believe that the ability to
>>>> select attributes for your products is some kind of advanced functionality.
>>>> For example, you sell t-shirts. They come in 3 sizes and 5 colors.  The
>>>> commerce solution is to list ebay style 15 articles!  Oh but there is a way
>>>> to do it with drop down selects, only the code is broken, broken, broken and
>>>> has been for years. I finally got it working after spending many intimate
>>>> hours with the product php code. The problem?
>>>> Even when it works there is a fundamental structural flaw in the select
>>>> attribute code. Instead of using the radio/select form data itself,
>>>> javascript is used to set some hidden variable  that the basket page
>>>> expects.
>>>> 
>>>> BIG BUG: user selects color "yellow", javascript  reloads form. But  client
>>>> hits "Add to basket" immediately instead of waiting 2-3 seconds for the form
>>>> to reload.  The basket still shows the original selection, because there was
>>>> not enough time for the hidden form variables to get set.  I consider this a
>>>> serious bug since this is the single most important functionality of any
>>>> shop software "Add to basket".  No user will EVER understand that the reason
>>>> their attribute selection is not carried into the basket is because they hit
>>>> the button too fast.
>>>> 
>>>> 3. No documentation for payment gateways:
>>>> I have looked everywhere, written everyone I could find to write, posted to
>>>> this list. There is simply no documentation anywhere on how to actually get
>>>> a payment gateway working. Sure there is the paymentlib, and the paymentlib
>>>> for commerce. I installed them. But when I configure everything that seems
>>>> reasonable to configure and hit that payment method all I get is this on
>>>> checkout "_ERROR". Maybe it works, but how can I know how without any docu?
>>>> 
>>>> 4. Buggy Addresses:
>>>> Sometimes when I proceed to checkout I am asked to add an address, sometimes
>>>> not and the checkout skips right through to the end. I have no idea why.
>>>> Looking through the list there seems to be a long history of problems with
>>>> billing/delivery address. This afternoon was for me the final straw. First I
>>>> was offered the form, then I wasn't.  That's it. On to tt_products.
>>>> 
>>>> 5. Clientitus:
>>>> This is by far the biggest problem with commerce. What is it? Clientitus is
>>>> a sickness that affects some, but not all, open source software projects.
>>>> 90% of the code does what it is supposed to. 10% does not (see the
>>>> http://forge.typo3.org/projects/extension-commerce/issues commerce bug list.
>>>> )  That 10% never gets fixed because everyone actually running commerce in
>>>> production is using some local branch.
>>>> Look, I understand as much as anyone that there is a need to make a living.
>>>> And I know how complicated it is to merge local branches to the main trunk.
>>>> But if those bugs never, ever get fixed in the main trunk of the project
>>>> (to say nothing about the TER version, 9.8, that is so fully non-functional
>>>> that the first thing everyone on this lists tells you to do is to get the
>>>> svn version) then a project has clientitus.
>>>> Cynics might say that the core developers intentionally foster clientitus
>>>> but I don't even believe that is true. I think they just don't have time to
>>>> deal with the main trunk and its many, many problems.
>>>> 
>>>> So, you like that fancy backend interface and still want to give it a try?
>>>> Be prepared for one of these 3 options:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Hire a commerce core programmer for 100EU/hour to get your commerce
>>>> working. Pay them again to merge the code each time a new version comes out.
>>>> 2. Fix everything locally yourself. Then you never, ever upgrade to some
>>>> future version of commerce that has fewer or different bugs because your
>>>> code is all particular to your project.
>>>> 3. Become a Commerce Saint. Join the core team with NO CLIENT paying you.
>>>> Devote your life to fixing all of the commerce bugs just to say you did.
>>>> 
>>>> Signing off this list now, thanks to everyone who helped me here and
>>>> offlist. Good luck.


-- 
Ralf Merz
Dipl.-Ing. (FH)
merzilla
TYPO3 development, hosting, service