[TYPO3-commerce] Commerce blues or Why I am switching to tt_products:

[Ralf Merz]

Hi Robert,

thanks for your post. Sounds nice! ;) You gave a warm helping hand to zylonne.
About the book: no, I´m not going to be the author. I also look forward 
to this.
At the weekend I´ll be on T3CON09 and will talk to the author. I´m 
curious what the conference will bring in cases of commerce.

Regards
Robert

On 2009-09-08 14:59:12 +0200, Bob Wild <rowild at gmx.net> said:

> There will be a book? Are you going to be the author, Ralf? Will it 
> also be published at OpenSourcepress like tt_products?
> 
> Looking forward to this!
> 
> As for zyklonne's post: I do feel with you! Really! commerce has 
> serious troubles and it is questionable why bugs that already have 
> solutions are STILL NOT in the actual SVN (like attribute selectors). 
> And it is very annoying that the menu - even though from many people 
> mentioned here - still has severe troubles with recognizing active 
> states etc.
> 
> Very troublesome, too, is the template setup, which for some reason 
> doesn't collaborate with TS as one is used from other extensions...
> 
> On the other hand: the docu - even though not mentioning everything - 
> is very good! Really! It points out very nicely how to install what, 
> how to use it (with good hands-on examples) and gives very good hints 
> as to what has to be paid attention to. Just take some time and read it.
> 
> Ingo just told me in a recent mail that "soon" there will be some 
> maintenance works done. He considers the status quo as pretty close to 
> final - so let's see what comes up next!
> 
> Zyklonne - take some time off from commerce, look into tt_products or 
> trade or webformat! (I dare to say that you will soon realize that none 
> of those systems work as much "out of the box" and "under one roof" as 
> commerce does.) But come back to this list and keep sharing your 
> experience with us! Even though your are desperate about the ext your 
> experience is quite valuable to the community!
> 
> Regards,
> Robert
> 
> 
>> Hi zylonne,
>> 
>> how often do you plan to "retweet" this message?
>> I think your post did not get an answer because you are saying that 
>> you´ll going to be offlist now.
>> 
>> So replying to someone who isn´t there anymore doesn´t make much sense.
>> 
>> I feel sorry for your anger about the commerce Extension. There are 
>> still years old bugs, but the base core of commerce gives you a really 
>> good shop framework that is very flexible, in my opinion. Of course, 
>> this flexibility makes this extension also to be complex in some ways.
>> 
>> Demanding a 100% working code of a developer fitting all needs is not 
>> the right way in my view, but trying to help and give thanks would help 
>> everyone much more.
>> 
>> Well, if you think commerce is not the right thing for you, feel free 
>> to try other things.
>> But, I also want to thank you for your post. There is much truth in it. 
>> You wouldn´t have written it, if you haven´t had a reason for it.
>> But to tell people not to install it is a bit hard. I´ve installed 
>> commerce on a production server a few weeks ago without any problems. 
>> Well, I have to say that I know commerce since 3 years now, but such a 
>> long experience is not needed with commerce to install it.
>> 
>> There will be a book about commerce, I say "soon", as I don´t know the 
>> exact time. Maybe this will help you.
>> 
>> Have fun
>> Regards
>> 
>> Ralf Merz
>> 
>> On 2009-09-08 09:25:16 +0200, zylonne <zylonne at web.de> said:
>> 
>>> 
>>> How I wish I had read a post like this before wasting literally weeks of my
>>> time on typo3 commerce.  I bet that there are a lot of people out there like
>>> me, who see the commerce extension and think, hmm, maybe worth a try.  Let
>>> this posting be a warning to you! Here we go:
>>> 
>>> 1. The Installation:
>>> You can bring down your whole server just by clicking on "install this
>>> extension". No dependency checks are made, and there are a LOT of
>>> dependencies. Install all those extensions in the wrong order, and you will
>>> have a blank screen, I mean, no Front End, NO BACKEND, NO TYPO3! Do not ever
>>> install commerce  on a production server for the first time unless you think
>>> it is fun desperately googling for help during a few panic stricken minutes
>>> while your whole site is down.
>>> 
>>> 2. Select Attributes:
>>> For some reason the developers of commerce believe that the ability to
>>> select attributes for your products is some kind of advanced functionality.
>>> For example, you sell t-shirts. They come in 3 sizes and 5 colors.  The
>>> commerce solution is to list ebay style 15 articles!  Oh but there is a way
>>> to do it with drop down selects, only the code is broken, broken, broken and
>>> has been for years. I finally got it working after spending many intimate
>>> hours with the product php code. The problem?
>>> Even when it works there is a fundamental structural flaw in the select
>>> attribute code. Instead of using the radio/select form data itself,
>>> javascript is used to set some hidden variable  that the basket page
>>> expects.
>>> 
>>> BIG BUG: user selects color "yellow", javascript  reloads form. But  client
>>> hits "Add to basket" immediately instead of waiting 2-3 seconds for the form
>>> to reload.  The basket still shows the original selection, because there was
>>> not enough time for the hidden form variables to get set.  I consider this a
>>> serious bug since this is the single most important functionality of any
>>> shop software "Add to basket".  No user will EVER understand that the reason
>>> their attribute selection is not carried into the basket is because they hit
>>> the button too fast.
>>> 
>>> 3. No documentation for payment gateways:
>>> I have looked everywhere, written everyone I could find to write, posted to
>>> this list. There is simply no documentation anywhere on how to actually get
>>> a payment gateway working. Sure there is the paymentlib, and the paymentlib
>>> for commerce. I installed them. But when I configure everything that seems
>>> reasonable to configure and hit that payment method all I get is this on
>>> checkout "_ERROR". Maybe it works, but how can I know how without any docu?
>>> 
>>> 4. Buggy Addresses:
>>> Sometimes when I proceed to checkout I am asked to add an address, sometimes
>>> not and the checkout skips right through to the end. I have no idea why.
>>> Looking through the list there seems to be a long history of problems with
>>> billing/delivery address. This afternoon was for me the final straw. First I
>>> was offered the form, then I wasn't.  That's it. On to tt_products.
>>> 
>>> 5. Clientitus:
>>> This is by far the biggest problem with commerce. What is it? Clientitus is
>>> a sickness that affects some, but not all, open source software projects.
>>> 90% of the code does what it is supposed to. 10% does not (see the
>>> http://forge.typo3.org/projects/extension-commerce/issues commerce bug list.
>>> )  That 10% never gets fixed because everyone actually running commerce in
>>> production is using some local branch.
>>> Look, I understand as much as anyone that there is a need to make a living.
>>> And I know how complicated it is to merge local branches to the main trunk.
>>> But if those bugs never, ever get fixed in the main trunk of the project
>>> (to say nothing about the TER version, 9.8, that is so fully non-functional
>>> that the first thing everyone on this lists tells you to do is to get the
>>> svn version) then a project has clientitus.
>>> Cynics might say that the core developers intentionally foster clientitus
>>> but I don't even believe that is true. I think they just don't have time to
>>> deal with the main trunk and its many, many problems.
>>> 
>>> So, you like that fancy backend interface and still want to give it a try?
>>> Be prepared for one of these 3 options:
>>> 
>>> 1. Hire a commerce core programmer for 100EU/hour to get your commerce
>>> working. Pay them again to merge the code each time a new version comes out.
>>> 2. Fix everything locally yourself. Then you never, ever upgrade to some
>>> future version of commerce that has fewer or different bugs because your
>>> code is all particular to your project.
>>> 3. Become a Commerce Saint. Join the core team with NO CLIENT paying you.
>>> Devote your life to fixing all of the commerce bugs just to say you did.
>>> 
>>> Signing off this list now, thanks to everyone who helped me here and
>>> offlist. Good luck.


-- 
Ralf Merz
Dipl.-Ing. (FH)
merzilla
TYPO3 development, hosting, service