[TYPO3-english] Back-end module "pages" still rendered with tables

Christopher Torgalson bedlamhotel at gmail.com
Fri Feb 26 05:37:21 CET 2010

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Jigal van Hemert <jigal at xs4all.nl> wrote:


> What should be avoided is using (nested) tables only for layout
> purposes: to render a border around an object, etc. But even the
> language view of a page module (each column representing a language) is
> a logical candidate for a table.

If you'll re-read my comments, you'll notice I was very careful to
direct my comments ONLY at tables used for layout purposes. If you
feel the need to agree with me at such length, I guess that's ok...


>> It's difficult enough to convince people that the CMS universe
>> includes products other than Drupal and Wordpress, and this isn't
>> going to help.
> If the selection criterium is "does it use tables or div's in the backend"
> then I doubt that this person or organisation is ready for using TYPO3.
> Most clients do not spend money on styling the BE; they do want to spend
> money to have the features they want and to configure the system in a such a
> way that it fits their work flow. The BE should be functional and must
> function correctly in the browser(s) which the client uses.

I neither said nor implied that any decision-maker would decide to use
or not to use TYPO3 on the basis of whether or not the BE uses layout
tables. I said it would make wider adoption of TYPO3 more difficult,
and I stick by that. Maybe I didn't put it simply enough:

1. Many people with development experience regard the use of nested
tables for layout as obsolete
2. Some of those people with development experience are involved in
decision making re: product selection
3. Those people, learning about a product using nested layout tables
*in newly refactored code* are likely to look *less favourably* on
TYPO3 (especially since outside of Europe and some local markets such
as Quebec, TYPO3 is not really very well known or understood in the
first place [notwithstanding the valuable efforts of the various North
American TYPO3-proselytizers, typo3apprentice.com gets more traffic
from Europe than all other regions/countries in the world

So to summarize: it's possible that: slightly suspect code (nested
layout tables) + unfamiliar product (TYPO3 in many places) + plausible
alternatives (Drupal e.g.) = a weaker case for the use of TYPO3. It's
one factor among many, but I think it could have a negative impact
quite out of proportion to its actual usefulness or necessity in the

Christopher Torgalson

More information about the TYPO3-english mailing list