[Typo3] Strategy for page templates... help needed.

[Amir Mualem]

Tyler Kraft wrote:
> Amir
> 
> Please get real! Not that I said I wanted rude, but thats not even rude. 
>  Thats just you sulking and being upset because you dont like what the 
> common adive here is.  And we dont hate you.
> 
> The point is WE ARE, I AM, trying to help you here.  I'm not trying to 
> piss you off or argue with you, I'm trying to show you something.
> 
> I'll stop telling you to read manuals when you stop argueing with people 
> who ANSWER your questions that you should have been able to figure out 
> quite easily yourself. And 9/10 when we say read tsref its becasue it's 
> an easy answer and we are busy and giving you the basic point to start 
> looking - we're not being rude about it.
> 
> Look at the thread you started on '[Typo3] TMENU listing rootlevel pages 
> only'!  All you did was argue about it with everyone who tried to point 
> you in the right direction and say that you didnt want to read the 
> manual or pay for help.
> 
> And the thread here also show that you dont exactly have a tendency to 
> look for the answer yourself:  [Typo3] Renaming the admin folder "typo3"
> 
> Simnply put it is that this is a great system and it is free and we want 
> you to use it and like it and spread the word about it.  And there are a 
> lot of people here who will help you (myslef included), but at the same 
> time you need to help yourself to sometimes.  I  agree that its 
> unfortuante that there is so much documentation and so many thread to 
> read but thats just the way it is, and that is the only way you will 
> learn this, and its the only way the rest of us have learned it. And 
> time and time again - even to you- it has been said to read the manuals. 
>  So the essential manuals are really TSref, TSconfig, and probably at 
> this stage for you TS by example.  But as time goes on and the more you 
> use the system the less and less you need to read.  The first site is 
> alwasy the most troubling, and this is proving that to you.  Once you 
> get it up and running all that you've done will look so obvious in 
> hindsight that you'll ptrobably begin to see our point.  My first site 
> took weeks to figure out, and luckily I had an employer who just let me 
> get on with it and figure things out.  It worked out well because like 
> you the menu and the templates were hard thigns to figure out, but NOW 
> becasue I took all that time to figure it out once they became second 
> nature and they take meer minutes to do.
> 
> All to often we see posts that are easy to find answers to but the 
> person asking has not even tried to find the answer themselves.  And 
> maybe I'm wrong but as it has been pointed out how obvious the answer to 
> your question was this time I can't believe that you tried to find out 
> yourself. Instead of asking the question you did you could have just 
> tried it.  So the answer to your question is that YES you can put other 
> content items into FCE, and the manual takes you through this step by step.
> 
> The point is we want to help you, we did help you and all that happened 
> was you argued about it with all of us!  So dont tell me or anyone else 
> not to reply if we are not going to help, but then get bitchy and 
> offended when we do help.  I've consistantly said, along with others, 
> that the only thing you need to do, all that you need to do, and the key 
> thing that you need to do is read things.  That is just simply the way 
> it is.  I know it takes time and it doesnt seem obvious or exciting or 
> fun or even worth it sometimes but thats just the way it is until it all 
> of a sudden clicks and everything falls into place.  And trust me that 
> will happen when all of a sudden it all just goes BANG and even the 
> littlest things make sense about why you needed to do something in 
> particular.  But it wont happen till you have read lots and start to 
> understand why something does behave in particular way.
> 
> Its alright to ask questions of any nature here but when we all reply 
> going go read this in tsref (or what ever the case might be) then take 
> that as a sign that what your asking is possible and uncomplicated to 
> do, which is why we say go read this.  Us constructing your typoscript 
> will not solve anything for us or you, because as many times have proven 
> we dont always know what you want to achieve or why or how; and often it 
> never gets full mentioned in the question.  So i think my responses have 
> be misconstured as rud , when actually they have been written out of 
> frustration.  All the answers are there for the taking but as we have 
> said you have to understand it for yourself and not just have us do it 
> for you.  If that doesnt happen then T£ is not for you simply because it 
> is far to complex to just try to make work with out investing a lot of 
> time in learning it.
> 
> So dont be discouraged by the ML, or me, or the time involved, or the 
> complexity...  But you do need to read these things and then ask a 
> decently researched question.  Just please try to read the documents 
> more because in this case the manual and answer are not hard to read. As 
> for your menu... that was not an easy thing for you as a newbie to 
> understand, which is fine, but it was pointed out what to look at in the 
> first reply.
> 
> tk
> 
> Amir Mualem wrote:
> 
>> Tyler Kraft wrote:
>>
>>> Ok so I seemed to have started this flurry of fury - fine but these 
>>> are points that irritate me and probably many other users!
>>>
>>> Yes this is a free mailing list. But so is the CMS and ALL the 
>>> extensions, AND ALL the FREE help from this FREE list.  So next time 
>>> maybe accept what experienced users tell you and go back and look 
>>> again at the documentation.
>>>
>>> Amir, you are being rude, end of story. Nobody said you were stupid.  
>>> In fact again go back and read because I said that the only thing us 
>>> experienced users have is time over you.  We have all read the 
>>> documentation so why shouldn't you?
>>>
>>> As far as the documentation not helping - you were pointed out the 
>>> answer by me and several others, and you then seemed to have taken a 
>>> belligerent tone. To bad as well because I think you've probably just 
>>> created a sh*t load of animosity towards yourself, and alienated 
>>> yourself from help by a large contingency of the very valuable users 
>>> and the main individuals on this ML.
>>>
>>> But the documentation being bad... then quite bitching and do 
>>> something about it! VOLUNTEER YOUR HELP AND TIME!!!  You get for FREE 
>>> a top notch CMS with a brilliant core development team devoted to 
>>> improving it, and expanding it, and a large amount of flexibility all 
>>> backed by a group of experienced users who normally offer their help 
>>> (but like I said I think you might have just lost that). So throw 
>>> your hand in also, write something that helps, even if its a list of 
>>> the little things that you think the documentation needs or needs to 
>>> improve.  But then don't just give it to somebody to do something 
>>> with, start doing something with it.  Volunteer with the doc group 
>>> for a start.  Like I said you will be reading a lot probably and 
>>> getting to talk to the people about what is going on in there 
>>> documents, seeking clarity for the written word.  But no wait I 
>>> forgot you even stated that you don't want to read that much...
>>>
>>> Francesco di Francia makes a good point (btw cool name!). Maybe, just 
>>> maybe though, its an unwise and foolish thing to be rude to the very 
>>> people who you ask and want help from.  Oliver wasn't being rude, he 
>>> offered you a good idea, check if there is a group near you.  BUT 
>>> instead of saying thanks where can I do that, you were asinine to 
>>> him. So now he has publicly stated here on this list that he will not 
>>> help you... seeing as he is a very prominent and useful person on 
>>> this list that was a dumb thing to do I think.  But hey again what do 
>>> I know about  this, most of my few questions seem to get answered here.
>>>
>>> As far as your ability to research, what was hard about rereading the 
>>> section pointed out to you?  It clearly stated, and not only that 
>>> area but the introduction of the manual also, that you could do what 
>>> you asked.  So, with something this direct, how can I not question 
>>> your ability to research?  And if your not going to read the manual, 
>>> then I think maybe everyone should get a profit share of any revenue 
>>> from your site, as we are the ones who actually are doing the 
>>> difficult part.  And its not like we don't help either.  For god sake 
>>> I'm the one who went off topic and informed you not only of a flaw in 
>>> your CSS but what was wrong and what you needed to do to correct it. 
>>> BTW your welcome.
>>>
>>> As far as reading your posts - I read all the posts on several lists, 
>>> which is why every day more and more of this CMS makes more and more 
>>> sense.  It is the only way to learn anything.  If you went to 
>>> university would you purchase your grades or read and learn to answer 
>>> the questions and exams?  You HAVE to read lots of posts and 
>>> documentation.  And its not like it takes that much of your time 
>>> either.  I mean really, I work full time and go to university full 
>>> time doing an Mechanical Engineering Masters so its not as if I have 
>>> lots of extra time to just sit around and read these posts for fun.
>>>
>>> So Amir, this isn't me being rude in fact I'm not even bothered about 
>>> this at all, but its just me being bold faced and brutally honest 
>>> with you.  If you want others here to figure out and hold your hand 
>>> on what are the most simple things, spend the money. As Michael said 
>>> most of us give back for all we get here.  If that's not an option, 
>>> learn how to be respectful and polite to the people who are trying to 
>>> help you, or else do what we have all done - READ, READ, READ.
>>>
>>> AS Kasper says 'seeks help' but don't think we are about to hold your 
>>> hand. There is a reason for the mailing archives, How Tos, and FAQs! 
>>> ITS FOR USERS TO... wait wait here it comes... DO RESEARCH ON THINGS 
>>> THEY NEED TO LEARN TO DO!!!  A fascinating concept, really. 
>>> Investigate it, it just might change your opinion why we all get so 
>>> annoyed by posts like yours.  They make it hard to find information.
>>>
>>> And with that I'm not helping you here any more I'm just 
>>> pontificating. You know what we think you need to do- read the 
>>> documents (yes all of them if need be!), user groups, archives, FAQs...
>>>
>>> As my gran says 'Like it or lump it'
>>>
>>> tk
>>>
>>> Amir Mualem wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a free mailing list from what I know and there are no rules 
>>>> against asking a simple question.  If you dont want to answer it or 
>>>> if you want to just be cocky with me, then please just dont reply.  
>>>> This is my way of finding answers. I am NOT going to go through 5+ 
>>>> 100-page manuals to find a simple answer to a question.  You tell 
>>>> me, maybe this is a lack of manuscript ORGANIZATION or what.  Please 
>>>> do not question my ability to research information because just as 
>>>> Amy said, it just does not pop up as quickly as you think.  No, I am 
>>>> not going to read 5, 6, 7 manuals just to learn how to do a fraction 
>>>> of the things.  I have 4 documents out, TSRef, TS By Example, Modern 
>>>> Template Building and Futuristic Template building.  This is my way 
>>>> of finding information, now if you dont want to help me out, then 
>>>> please JUST DONT ANSWER ME and save me the time from reading your 
>>>> post all about how I dont read the documentation.
>>>>
>>>> Really, you guys are making me rethink the whole idea of using Typo3 
>>>> at all.  I guess Typo3 isn't as "perfect" as I thought it was when I 
>>>> started using it. ;) I guess its impossible for any CMS to be 
>>>> perfect eh?
>>>>
>>>> Now for a future notice, if you are sick of reading my posts, then 
>>>> dont click on them and dont answer them.  I am interested in some 
>>>> help and consultation with understanding Typo3 and to tell you the 
>>>> truth, THE DOCUMENTATION DOES NOT HELP.  Getting started tutorial 
>>>> helped, but to as far as I know, thats it.  I like getting real time 
>>>> help, and doing it myself.  Now if you dont want to help, then 
>>>> please, don't.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry if I sound a bit rude, but I have been just having enough with 
>>>> this mailing list already.  I wonder if other noobs feel the same way.
>>
>>
>>
>> I really dont have time for a petty argument.  The point of my 
>> argument is if you dont want to help me, THEN DONT, and stop posting 
>> in my thread.  Period.  End of discussion.  I personally dont want to 
>> hear it anymore.  I posted this PERFECTLY FINE QUESTION according to 
>> the rules and yet for the third time I am bombarded with an attitude 
>> problem from nearly 5 or more people.  If it hurts your eyes so bad to 
>> read my post, then please dont read it and leave the thread un-spammed 
>> as you guys have made it to allow someone who is willing to help and 
>> discuss the question with me to do it in peace.  I hear this is called 
>> trolling.
>>
>> Now I am through with hearing it from you people "read the 
>> documentation". I will read it if I feel like reading it, which I 
>> have, but on other circumstances, I POSTED HERE and thats it.  I 
>> already posted so stop telling me that I have to read 5 manuals to get 
>> one damn answer.  Now if I told you that I still have not found an 
>> answer then it is OBVIOUS that I did not understnad the manual.  Do I 
>> have to explain this every time I post?
>>
>> Now for the last time, if you are not going to help me, then stop 
>> posting in my thread and allow others who are willing to do so, to 
>> help me.  I do not need petty trolling and hostility from anyone right 
>> now. If you still have a problem, let's settle this outside of the 
>> mailing list and quit spamming the threads here.
>>
>> Therefore when I post my next thread, if you simply hate me because of 
>> my "stupid questions" then dont click on it, PERIOD.
>>
>> -- 
>> You wanted rude Tyler?  Well there it is.

Btw, about CSS styled content changes is another question I did not dare 
ask on this mailing list before getting tore up by you people.  I just 
searched in google, in the docs, and I find nothing about that. ;)  I 
guess I am right, its not that easy to find information.