[Typo3] Strategy for page templates... help needed.

Tyler Kraft headhunterxiii at yahoo.ca
Sat May 7 11:22:54 CEST 2005


Amir

Please get real! Not that I said I wanted rude, but thats not even rude. 
  Thats just you sulking and being upset because you dont like what the 
common adive here is.  And we dont hate you.

The point is WE ARE, I AM, trying to help you here.  I'm not trying to 
piss you off or argue with you, I'm trying to show you something.

I'll stop telling you to read manuals when you stop argueing with people 
who ANSWER your questions that you should have been able to figure out 
quite easily yourself. And 9/10 when we say read tsref its becasue it's 
an easy answer and we are busy and giving you the basic point to start 
looking - we're not being rude about it.

Look at the thread you started on '[Typo3] TMENU listing rootlevel pages 
only'!  All you did was argue about it with everyone who tried to point 
you in the right direction and say that you didnt want to read the 
manual or pay for help.

And the thread here also show that you dont exactly have a tendency to 
look for the answer yourself:  [Typo3] Renaming the admin folder "typo3"

Simnply put it is that this is a great system and it is free and we want 
you to use it and like it and spread the word about it.  And there are a 
lot of people here who will help you (myslef included), but at the same 
time you need to help yourself to sometimes.  I  agree that its 
unfortuante that there is so much documentation and so many thread to 
read but thats just the way it is, and that is the only way you will 
learn this, and its the only way the rest of us have learned it. And 
time and time again - even to you- it has been said to read the manuals. 
  So the essential manuals are really TSref, TSconfig, and probably at 
this stage for you TS by example.  But as time goes on and the more you 
use the system the less and less you need to read.  The first site is 
alwasy the most troubling, and this is proving that to you.  Once you 
get it up and running all that you've done will look so obvious in 
hindsight that you'll ptrobably begin to see our point.  My first site 
took weeks to figure out, and luckily I had an employer who just let me 
get on with it and figure things out.  It worked out well because like 
you the menu and the templates were hard thigns to figure out, but NOW 
becasue I took all that time to figure it out once they became second 
nature and they take meer minutes to do.

All to often we see posts that are easy to find answers to but the 
person asking has not even tried to find the answer themselves.  And 
maybe I'm wrong but as it has been pointed out how obvious the answer to 
your question was this time I can't believe that you tried to find out 
yourself. Instead of asking the question you did you could have just 
tried it.  So the answer to your question is that YES you can put other 
content items into FCE, and the manual takes you through this step by step.

The point is we want to help you, we did help you and all that happened 
was you argued about it with all of us!  So dont tell me or anyone else 
not to reply if we are not going to help, but then get bitchy and 
offended when we do help.  I've consistantly said, along with others, 
that the only thing you need to do, all that you need to do, and the key 
thing that you need to do is read things.  That is just simply the way 
it is.  I know it takes time and it doesnt seem obvious or exciting or 
fun or even worth it sometimes but thats just the way it is until it all 
of a sudden clicks and everything falls into place.  And trust me that 
will happen when all of a sudden it all just goes BANG and even the 
littlest things make sense about why you needed to do something in 
particular.  But it wont happen till you have read lots and start to 
understand why something does behave in particular way.

Its alright to ask questions of any nature here but when we all reply 
going go read this in tsref (or what ever the case might be) then take 
that as a sign that what your asking is possible and uncomplicated to 
do, which is why we say go read this.  Us constructing your typoscript 
will not solve anything for us or you, because as many times have proven 
we dont always know what you want to achieve or why or how; and often it 
never gets full mentioned in the question.  So i think my responses have 
be misconstured as rud , when actually they have been written out of 
frustration.  All the answers are there for the taking but as we have 
said you have to understand it for yourself and not just have us do it 
for you.  If that doesnt happen then T£ is not for you simply because it 
is far to complex to just try to make work with out investing a lot of 
time in learning it.

So dont be discouraged by the ML, or me, or the time involved, or the 
complexity...  But you do need to read these things and then ask a 
decently researched question.  Just please try to read the documents 
more because in this case the manual and answer are not hard to read. As 
for your menu... that was not an easy thing for you as a newbie to 
understand, which is fine, but it was pointed out what to look at in the 
first reply.

tk

Amir Mualem wrote:
> Tyler Kraft wrote:
> 
>> Ok so I seemed to have started this flurry of fury - fine but these 
>> are points that irritate me and probably many other users!
>>
>> Yes this is a free mailing list. But so is the CMS and ALL the 
>> extensions, AND ALL the FREE help from this FREE list.  So next time 
>> maybe accept what experienced users tell you and go back and look 
>> again at the documentation.
>>
>> Amir, you are being rude, end of story. Nobody said you were stupid.  
>> In fact again go back and read because I said that the only thing us 
>> experienced users have is time over you.  We have all read the 
>> documentation so why shouldn't you?
>>
>> As far as the documentation not helping - you were pointed out the 
>> answer by me and several others, and you then seemed to have taken a 
>> belligerent tone. To bad as well because I think you've probably just 
>> created a sh*t load of animosity towards yourself, and alienated 
>> yourself from help by a large contingency of the very valuable users 
>> and the main individuals on this ML.
>>
>> But the documentation being bad... then quite bitching and do 
>> something about it! VOLUNTEER YOUR HELP AND TIME!!!  You get for FREE 
>> a top notch CMS with a brilliant core development team devoted to 
>> improving it, and expanding it, and a large amount of flexibility all 
>> backed by a group of experienced users who normally offer their help 
>> (but like I said I think you might have just lost that). So throw your 
>> hand in also, write something that helps, even if its a list of the 
>> little things that you think the documentation needs or needs to 
>> improve.  But then don't just give it to somebody to do something 
>> with, start doing something with it.  Volunteer with the doc group for 
>> a start.  Like I said you will be reading a lot probably and getting 
>> to talk to the people about what is going on in there documents, 
>> seeking clarity for the written word.  But no wait I forgot you even 
>> stated that you don't want to read that much...
>>
>> Francesco di Francia makes a good point (btw cool name!). Maybe, just 
>> maybe though, its an unwise and foolish thing to be rude to the very 
>> people who you ask and want help from.  Oliver wasn't being rude, he 
>> offered you a good idea, check if there is a group near you.  BUT 
>> instead of saying thanks where can I do that, you were asinine to him. 
>> So now he has publicly stated here on this list that he will not help 
>> you... seeing as he is a very prominent and useful person on this list 
>> that was a dumb thing to do I think.  But hey again what do I know 
>> about  this, most of my few questions seem to get answered here.
>>
>> As far as your ability to research, what was hard about rereading the 
>> section pointed out to you?  It clearly stated, and not only that area 
>> but the introduction of the manual also, that you could do what you 
>> asked.  So, with something this direct, how can I not question your 
>> ability to research?  And if your not going to read the manual, then I 
>> think maybe everyone should get a profit share of any revenue from 
>> your site, as we are the ones who actually are doing the difficult 
>> part.  And its not like we don't help either.  For god sake I'm the 
>> one who went off topic and informed you not only of a flaw in your CSS 
>> but what was wrong and what you needed to do to correct it. BTW your 
>> welcome.
>>
>> As far as reading your posts - I read all the posts on several lists, 
>> which is why every day more and more of this CMS makes more and more 
>> sense.  It is the only way to learn anything.  If you went to 
>> university would you purchase your grades or read and learn to answer 
>> the questions and exams?  You HAVE to read lots of posts and 
>> documentation.  And its not like it takes that much of your time 
>> either.  I mean really, I work full time and go to university full 
>> time doing an Mechanical Engineering Masters so its not as if I have 
>> lots of extra time to just sit around and read these posts for fun.
>>
>> So Amir, this isn't me being rude in fact I'm not even bothered about 
>> this at all, but its just me being bold faced and brutally honest with 
>> you.  If you want others here to figure out and hold your hand on what 
>> are the most simple things, spend the money. As Michael said most of 
>> us give back for all we get here.  If that's not an option, learn how 
>> to be respectful and polite to the people who are trying to help you, 
>> or else do what we have all done - READ, READ, READ.
>>
>> AS Kasper says 'seeks help' but don't think we are about to hold your 
>> hand. There is a reason for the mailing archives, How Tos, and FAQs! 
>> ITS FOR USERS TO... wait wait here it comes... DO RESEARCH ON THINGS 
>> THEY NEED TO LEARN TO DO!!!  A fascinating concept, really. 
>> Investigate it, it just might change your opinion why we all get so 
>> annoyed by posts like yours.  They make it hard to find information.
>>
>> And with that I'm not helping you here any more I'm just 
>> pontificating. You know what we think you need to do- read the 
>> documents (yes all of them if need be!), user groups, archives, FAQs...
>>
>> As my gran says 'Like it or lump it'
>>
>> tk
>>
>> Amir Mualem wrote:
>>
>>> This is a free mailing list from what I know and there are no rules 
>>> against asking a simple question.  If you dont want to answer it or 
>>> if you want to just be cocky with me, then please just dont reply.  
>>> This is my way of finding answers. I am NOT going to go through 5+ 
>>> 100-page manuals to find a simple answer to a question.  You tell me, 
>>> maybe this is a lack of manuscript ORGANIZATION or what.  Please do 
>>> not question my ability to research information because just as Amy 
>>> said, it just does not pop up as quickly as you think.  No, I am not 
>>> going to read 5, 6, 7 manuals just to learn how to do a fraction of 
>>> the things.  I have 4 documents out, TSRef, TS By Example, Modern 
>>> Template Building and Futuristic Template building.  This is my way 
>>> of finding information, now if you dont want to help me out, then 
>>> please JUST DONT ANSWER ME and save me the time from reading your 
>>> post all about how I dont read the documentation.
>>>
>>> Really, you guys are making me rethink the whole idea of using Typo3 
>>> at all.  I guess Typo3 isn't as "perfect" as I thought it was when I 
>>> started using it. ;) I guess its impossible for any CMS to be perfect 
>>> eh?
>>>
>>> Now for a future notice, if you are sick of reading my posts, then 
>>> dont click on them and dont answer them.  I am interested in some 
>>> help and consultation with understanding Typo3 and to tell you the 
>>> truth, THE DOCUMENTATION DOES NOT HELP.  Getting started tutorial 
>>> helped, but to as far as I know, thats it.  I like getting real time 
>>> help, and doing it myself.  Now if you dont want to help, then 
>>> please, don't.
>>>
>>> Sorry if I sound a bit rude, but I have been just having enough with 
>>> this mailing list already.  I wonder if other noobs feel the same way.
> 
> 
> I really dont have time for a petty argument.  The point of my argument 
> is if you dont want to help me, THEN DONT, and stop posting in my 
> thread.  Period.  End of discussion.  I personally dont want to hear it 
> anymore.  I posted this PERFECTLY FINE QUESTION according to the rules 
> and yet for the third time I am bombarded with an attitude problem from 
> nearly 5 or more people.  If it hurts your eyes so bad to read my post, 
> then please dont read it and leave the thread un-spammed as you guys 
> have made it to allow someone who is willing to help and discuss the 
> question with me to do it in peace.  I hear this is called trolling.
> 
> Now I am through with hearing it from you people "read the 
> documentation". I will read it if I feel like reading it, which I have, 
> but on other circumstances, I POSTED HERE and thats it.  I already 
> posted so stop telling me that I have to read 5 manuals to get one damn 
> answer.  Now if I told you that I still have not found an answer then it 
> is OBVIOUS that I did not understnad the manual.  Do I have to explain 
> this every time I post?
> 
> Now for the last time, if you are not going to help me, then stop 
> posting in my thread and allow others who are willing to do so, to help 
> me.  I do not need petty trolling and hostility from anyone right now. 
> If you still have a problem, let's settle this outside of the mailing 
> list and quit spamming the threads here.
> 
> Therefore when I post my next thread, if you simply hate me because of 
> my "stupid questions" then dont click on it, PERIOD.
> 
> -- 
> You wanted rude Tyler?  Well there it is.



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