[TYPO3-dev] relaease plans for typoe 4.2?

[osaintclair at metaphore.fr]

Hello,

I think you can't just use bulk PHP, instead of TS.

If I'm newer in PHP and I want to use TYPO3 and the configuration system
(TS, or PHP as you want) I have to learn it.

If you want to use PHP in typo3 you can already do that with plugin.

your real need is that you don't want to search for specifique word, or
expression.

for example, if you don't know the expression to use wrap functionnality,
you can do it neither in TS nor in PHP

TS is "hard" to learn because you have to understand what developper
wanted whe he wrote his PHP code.

If I make an extention which need specific array for configuration, it
will be difficult for you if you don't have documentation which explain
configuration array, or if you don't want to read the code.
this case would be true in PHP and in TS.

in the given example, if I don't know that "NO['allWrap']" let me manage a
special situation, I can't use it. I don't know where PHP could help me in
this case.


so the problem is not, for me, using bulk PHP instead of TS.

TS is not a real language, it's just configuration system. If you don't
know what is behind configuration, and what will use your configuration,
you can't use it.
PHP is a real language, there is no need for full featured php in "simple"
configuration system, use that only in plugin.


I don't think you need 2 years to understand TS, but you need more to
discover all specific case where TS is used. and you can't descover all
specific cases if you don't read all part of the typo3 code. that is why
we need a long time to be expert in TS, only because you have to be expert
in typo3 code to use TS in depth. and if you use PHP instead of TS, you
still have to know all part of the Typo3 code.. so you will need long time
even if you use PHP.


the last point could be, remplace TS actual syntaxe, by PHP like syntax
and use it whitin configuration system, the problem is not solved. if you
don't know what to write in your php like syntax configuration, you can't
write anything.




Olivier



>> I can imagine a middle ground here; e.g. a setup where, since 'new' TS
>> will be php objects internally, those objects' properties could be set
>> directly from templates...might be interesting.
>
> Exactly. Here is the example:
>
>
> temp.menu < HMENU
> temp.menu {
>  entryLevel = 1
>  1 < TMENU
>  1 {
>      noBlur = 1
>      wrap = <ul>|</ul>
>      NO.allWrap =  <li class="first">|</li> |*| <li>|</li>
>  }
>
>  stdWrap.if {
>   value.data = register:count_menuItems
>   isLessThan = 1
>   isGreaterThan = 5
>  }
> }
>
> lib.menu < temp.menu
>
>
> becomes something like:
>
>
> $temp = new HMENU();
> $temp->entryLevel = 1;
> $temp->noBlur = 1;
> $temp->wrap = '<ul>|</ul>';
> $temp->NO['allWrap'] = '<li class="first">|</li> |*| <li>|</li>';
>
> if(t3lib_div::intInRange($temp->NumberOfItems(), 1, 10, 0))
> {
>  $page->templavoila['menu'] = $temp->Render();
> }
>
>
> We get syntax and error checking + it is faster. Simple as that.
>
>
>
>> "Has to"? This subject comes up 3 times a year on this list like
>> clockwork, but I think it almost always makes incorrect assumptions a)
>> about the comparative simplicity of other CMS tools, and b) about
>> /who/ the people are that TYPO3 is designed to appeal to are, and what
>> TYPO3's primary purpose is.
>>
>> For (a), it's definitely true that you need to be an expert to use
>> TYPO3, but this is also very true of other CMS tools.
>
> Why are we looking to weak sides of other CMS tools? We are trying to
> making something better?
>
>
>> Having said that, TS /does/ badly need the possibility of syntax
>> checking and error-reporting; I'd say that a more predictable syntax,
>> and instant feedback about the /nature/ of any errors would solve the
>> largest TS/TYPO3 learning problems we have at the moment.
>
> Why are we wasting time of that? PHP has all of that? We should focus on
> CMS, not developing alternative language.
>
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