[Typo3-typo3org] Hosting the TYPO3 sites

Jan-Hendrik Heuing [NF] jh at netfielders.de
Tue Apr 12 01:43:12 CEST 2005

comments as following:

"Robert Lemke" <robert at typo3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:mailman.1.1112970423.24367.typo3-team-typo3org at lists.netfielders.de...

> Hi folks,
> if you are interested in the future of the TYPO3 sites, please read this
> post and give your feedback.
> As all of you know, we currently have a variety of difficulties with
> TYPO3.org. Basically I'd boil these down to the following:
>  a) the technical design for the documentation section and the TER causes
>     too much load, a redesign is neccessary

Haha, yes :-) Just to make it clear, we know about it since september. 
Robert has taken over now and is writing on concepts, good! We will support 
this in any way. t3annotation is already work in progress, which was 
originaly planed for a different case, but in this turn we could update it 
so that it caches content.

>  b) the current hosting solution can't cope with this load and doesn't
>     scale well, at peak times TYPO3.org is partly unusable and the TER is
>     not reachable. We don't have detailed information about the reasons
>     when load is too high or the site fails generally.

Yes, in peaktimes for sure. While last week, it was really a 3.8.0 problem. 
BTW: The funny thing here is that I came across the same problem in a 
testinstallation of mine, as I just enabled cache right before :D

>  c) debugging TYPO3.org is quite hard for me as I can do it only while I
>     have contact to someone of the netfielders staff. I currently have:
>       - a shell account to the TYPO3.com server which has the filebase 
> from
>         TYPO3.org mounted into a directory
>     what I definately need for debugging is:
>       - control on restarting the webservers and flushing the accelerator
>         cache
>       - an (S)FTP account for the TYPO3.org filebase
>       - access on the PHP error log and the Apache logfiles

Which is what we offered since september: I forgot to say in the other mail: 
I only want to do the upgrade to the virtuozzo platform, as soon as the 
proxy is running. I just need to make sure we've got some spare load while 
we install one webserver after the other.

I was a little confused that it has been stated as a problem, but it has 
been communicated a couple of times to a couple of people. Anyway, we fixed 
that, updated Rob, and finally we did that debugging for the last problem in 

> The solutions we planned for these task are currently
>   a) - short term:
>          - refactor the current TER to be file based
>          - disable other features on TYPO3.org which cause much load

Which is probably not needed after activating the cache!

>          - upgrade to 3.8.0 and use caching headers / reverse proxy

Yes please, waiting for this 4 month now ;) Last update didn't work. After 
finding the bug in 3.8.0 we'll update.

>      long term:
>          - create a TER 2.0

Which Rob convinced me to come up with my concept announced as cvs/svn in 
another mail...

>          - create a different solution for the documentation section
>          - split up TYPO3.org into teams.typo3.org, 
> documentation.typo3.org

As long as it's not like molloch .org, those can be setup like 
news.typo3.com, typo3.com etc. in a separate virtual server.

>            etc.
>   b+c) ?
> During the last months Kasper and I received different offers for 
> improving
> the hosting situation for TYPO3.org. Among them is Robert Meyer from
> mittwaldmedien who has transferred ¤ 3.350,- to netfielders for buying a
> new server (Dual Xeon, 4GB RAM).
> Another very interesting offer comes from Jürgen Egeling from punkt.de: He
> does not only offer to invest quite some money and time into setting up a
> professional and reliable hosting solution but also invites one or two
> developers to come to Karlsruhe for planning and developing the new
> extension repository. He would pay half of the daily rate for these
> developers and provide working time from hist PHP developers and 
> sysadmins.

So this is a bundle? Or is this 2 different things?

> As you can imagine, I representing the TYPO3 Association in this regard 
> and
> therefore speaking for the community cannot ignore these offers just
> because I think that Jan-Hendrik is a nice person. I can't ignore this 
> just


> because I'm thankful what he did all the years for TYPO3, the lists and 
> the
> websites.
> I have discussed a lot with various people - members of the T3A, Jürgen,
> Jan-Hendrik, members of the community - and finally have decided to 
> suggest
> the following solution:

Well, we didn't dicuss a lot until last weekend, which was pretty much the 
time to do it ;)

> - keep the mailing lists at netfielders if they really put effort into
> switching to Sympa or making them controllable via SOAP in a certain
>    way.

No, Yes.

> - Distribute hosting of the different sites instead of having one provider
> for all. In particular I'd like to see the following distribution if all
> parties agree:
> netfielders: www.typo3.com, edu.typo3.com, gov.typo3.com,
>                 news.typo3.org, typo3.netfielders.de
> ELIOS:       bugs.typo3.org, association.typo3.org, wiki.typo3.org
> punkt.de:    all remaining *.typo3.org, demo.typo3.com,
>                 lists.association.typo3.org

> Now I ask you to give me answers and your opinion to the following
> questions:
>  - Do you agree with this decision?

I do not want to pass on typo3.org, as it is more an architecture problem, 
which we can solve. Enable proxy would give us time to do so. But anyway, I 
guess it's not my decision. For demo.typo3.org, yes, that was the plan, it's 
hosted with us in excident, as fs-edv server didn't work, and I didn't get 
access quick enoug, so we just switched it last summer. Still it advertises 
fs-edv, which does not host it since like 8-10 month or so. As soon as 
testsite is ready, we'd change DNS.

>  - Should anyone else be asked before taking this decision? We need some
>    really trustworthy people and a quick and future-proof solution at the
>    same time.

I can not estimate if punkt.de is future proof or not, at least I can say 
that we did proof that we will support it in any case, it's not just "a cool 
thing which we do until we find something better" ;) And we did so in good 
and in bad  times.

>  - How should these topics be communicated?
> Let's take a final decision until Monday. Most of the active members of 
> the
> T3A already agreed.
> Cheers,
> -- 
> robert

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