[TYPO3-hci] BE vs FE

[Johannes Reichardt]

Hi Waldemar,
> Yep, that was what I meant. I fully understand that the backend is
> only for admins, but why those different user records? This makes it
> impossible to simply grant an existing FE user BE access and the UI
> separates FE and BE users too much.
>   
I do not see a real point here. There are lots of extensions with 
community features for example that extend the fe_user records a lot - 
that would be just overhead for be users. Also in terms of db 
normalization that way is better i guess. I´d rather focus on making 
typo3 more accessible from the fe - right now there are lots of things 
that are restricted to the be - functions you would miss sometimes.

- Johannes
>   
>> there are many extension programmers which do not know about SQL-injections and do not
>> properly escape values which are taken from GET or POST vars ...
>>
>> so when there would exist a table febe_users compared to fe_users and be_users currently and
>> it would have a flag "is_beuser" and you would have an extension with a statement like:
>> [...]
>> then he could easily become a BE user.
>>     
>
> Well, a role or group could do. Roles are in a different table and
> normally, an end-user accessible plugin won't manipulate roles. So,
> it's really strange why this separation was done. Would it be very
> difficult to revert this for V4.5? Our project really needs one single
> user DB and since the separation is unnecessary this should be
> removed, anyway.
>
>   
>> For me TypoScript templates are the central concept :)
>>
>> Pages are just plain containers ... you can't switch any behaviour using
>> them - except creating hierachial structures ... the real magic happens in
>> TypoScript - believe me :)
>>     
>
> Somehow I have my doubts when I read the word "Script"... :)
>
>   
>>> I understand that a page tree is a nice abstraction, but manipulating
>>> your site in-place is even better because there is no need to abstract
>>> anything.
>>>       
>> Again: See FE-Editing topics.
>>     
>
> Well, as I said in a later mail, I'm not totally against BEs because
> FE-editing requires special skins and complicates skin development
> significantly.
>
>   
>>> Also, the current "items" concept (page list-view) is nice,
>>> but isn't normally a plugin needed to store items?In many cases it's
>>> probably better to allow plugins to add special actions to the website
>>> (when logged-in) and let plugins manage items. For example the news
>>> plugin could add a "manage news" button and take care of all news
>>> items. Where this data is actually stored should not be exposed to the
>>> user, but you should still be able to say that your news plugin should
>>> use the same data store as the news plugin on some other page (so you
>>> can have a news summary on the front page and a separate archive
>>> page).
>>>       
>> Do you mean that every extension should be able to add it's own buttons to
>> the page-module (or the FE in your case) - I hope you do not expect that
>> every extension brings it's own listing modules for records it uses with
>> it ... this would be a lot of redundancy.
>>     
>
> Please take a look at Skeletonz. It does what I'm talking about and it
> doesn't seem to introduce a  lot of redundancy. Unfortunately,
> Skeletonz is not mature and professional enough and it requires a VPS
> or dedicated server to run (like Zope...). We want something that has
> simple hosting requirements.
>
>   
>> I find your ideas quite interesting but I think the BE should stay a major part
>> of TYPO3 - pherhaps more attention should be brought to FE editing and it should be
>> improved in some ways to make it more adoptable to each specific situation (it had to
>> change some parts of the core for myself to get it working like I wanted to :( )
>>     
>
> Indeed, FE editing could be improved, but I'm not a friend of all
> those little buttons that appear on every page. I prefer if you can
> use your login to access certain site sections (e.g.: the admin-only
> section with ideas, non-public documents, and so on...). Having a page
> with lots of buttons is disturbing. Some CMSes have one button which
> can turn all those extra buttons off and on.
> Hmm, you should also be able to quickly switch between FE and BE for
> the currently opened page, so FE and BE get more connected. IMHO, they
> are too separated.
>
> Bye,
> Waldemar Kornewald
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