[TYPO3-hci] BE vs FE

[JoH]

> But those records in Web>List aren't necessarily shown on the page,
> either. In those cases where the image/file is hidden you can create a
> hidden page which acts like a folder. In many cases your file/image
> will actually appear on some page and it's more intuitive to put
> related files and pages together. Typo3 has too many separate concepts
> which could easily be unified. Every new concepts means that you have
> to learn it. Why don't you try to reduce the number of concepts?

Well - this simply shows that you didn't get the overall concept of TYPO3 at
all.
One of the major advantages is that there always are at least 2 (sometimes 3
or 4) different concepts to choose from.
This way we can make sure that everybody can find his personal way of doing
things as comfortably as possible.
Something that looks "ridiculously complicated" for you might be the way to
go for other people with a different mentality.
Some people prefer the "Web->Page" view when editing content, others really
like the "Web->List" view again others are working with FE editing only. It
all depends on their personal background and skills.

I've followed this thread for a while now and IMHO it sounds a bit
overconfident if someone who is just looking for a new CMS but never really
used it is writing stuff like:
"Ridiculously complicated" -> How does it come that none of the newbie
editors I have trained ever complained about this?
"Nobody needs this/that" -> How can you know what others might need?
"Separating FE and BE users is a bad concept" -> How can you know if you
didn't even get what they are for (Website Visitors vs. Website Editors)?

First thing you should understand: TYPO3 is a CMS - this means Content
_Management_ System.
It's definitely no "Online Dreamweaver" and WYSIWYG editing becomes pretty
useless as soon as you want to manage the same content with different
layouts or for different mediatypes or in intranet/extranet scenarios.

Second thing: It has been a well planned decision to show each and every
possible button, tab or link in the BE when installing TYPO3 for the first
time.
Compare it to you car's cockpit. Usually it is a black board with a lot of
different lights behind it, that you can't see as long as you don't turn the
key. But when you turn the key for the first time, all the different lights
will flash at least once to show you they are available and working. Imagine
how surprised you would be if you had to find out by accident, that there is
a light that shows you are running out of fuel and you don't have to go and
check the fill level of your tank manually.
Same reason for the BE: If you install TYPO3 the first time it offers you
all the available options. It's up to you to decide if you need them or not
and if you want to turn off the stuff you find unnecessary.
You can use an extension for this purpose (I have to admit that this is not
a real "extension" but more a "modification") or you can simply setup
different BE views for your BE usergroups.
Since the first login will always be an admin login it seems logical to me
that you don't get a restricted view. This is something for simple editors
and it can be acchieved very easily
If you are just a simple editor and don't want to see the whole admin stuff
it doesn't matter anyway since you will have to ask for professional support
that will setup the "streamlined" BE view for you and do at least the
necessary templating.

TYPO3 is no out-of-the-box-solution for end users but a framework for
professionals that will create such a solution for the end users out of it.
If it is looking too complictaed for you, maybe it's just because you are
more like an end user who needs the help of such a professional.
This is not meant to be offending or questioning your overall programming
knowledge, just an assessment from a TYPO3 point of view.
Maybe it will be enough to buy some books to get behind the magic - have a
look at my signature ;-) - , maybe you should consider paying for some
training or maybe it will be even better to drop TYPO3 and try to find the
online-dreamweaver you seem to be looking for.
It's up to you.

BTW: If you want to combine pages and corresponding files/images in just one
view, feel free to use the media field of the page record and put as many
files in there as you like.
You will even get thumbnails of the images there.

HTH

Joey

-- 
Wenn man keine Ahnung hat: Einfach mal Fresse halten!
(If you have no clues: simply shut your knob sometimes!)
Dieter Nuhr, German comedian
openBC: http://www.cybercraft.de
T3 cookbook: http://www.typo3experts.com