[TYPO3-ect] Improving communication between ECT and Core team (was: Re: Re: [TYPO3-core] Wishlist from ECT)

[Michael Stucki]

Did anybody ever read this? No other opinions, or pure enthusiasm?

- michael

Michael Stucki wrote:

> Hi Elmar,
> 
> I just read some parts of this discussion and would like to add some
> comments about it.
> 
> I wonder why your are complaining in this list that the communication with
> the core team does not work, waiting until someone accidentially finds
> this message and gets a chance to start improving this.
> 
> Both Core Team and ECT belong to the R&D committee, which you are a member
> of. I wonder why you didn't post this information there or at least send
> it to me directly? (Thanks to Joerg Schoppet who did so - unfortunately he
> didn't respond to my comments yet.)
> 
> Anyway, here's my try to get back to a common track:
> 
> Note: Actually I didn't follow the original typo3/contrib/ discussion at
> all, and I don't want to start it over right now. I just would like to get
> some input about how you think we can improve communication between those
> teams in general.
> 
> 
> First of all, I think that there should not have been any discussion about
> the typo3/contrib/ suggestion (and stuff like this) on the core team list.
> My original idea of this list was pretty simple: Provide a place for
> submitting patches, and for getting them reviewed. Discussions should be
> kept short, and only relating to the proposed code changes. This also
> explains why the list is closed: Only people who can actually commit
> something are able to propose their changes.
> 
> 
> Now when it comes to stuff that affects the architecture of TYPO3 (e.g.
> this contrib directory, or the past AJAX framework decision) this might be
> fine in some cases as well. However, since there were complaints coming
> from this team, we should find a better way to discuss this and make a
> decision.
> 
> Although the ECT seems to be a better (because public) place for
> discussions like this, it also scares me to support this idea. Looking at
> the length and style of some discussions held in here, I really doubt if
> people are willing to spend so much time and efforts for participating in
> such a discussion. Why should many people participate in a discussion,
> when it would have been easy for a working group to compile all
> information (including pros and cons) into a single document.
> 
> My suggestion is that next time we are in such a situation, someone (we'll
> need a moderator for this) has to start a Wiki document, which can be
> announced on dev, core and ect lists. We will wait two weeks while
> everyone can post his thoughts and comments, explain why XY is better than
> XZ, etc.
> 
> Finally, a vote will be organised by the moderator, directly followed by
> the implementation in TYPO3core.
> 
> (Prerequisite: If it is about code changes, then these changes must be
> available as a patch. Otherwise it appears logical to me that those who
> implement it can also decide how they want to do it...)
> 
> 
> So, what dou you think about that?
> 
> - michael
> 
> Elmar Hinz wrote:
>> the request was not an empty directory, but rather an include path for
>> PEAR that extension developers can rely on. Maybe that was a little
>> unclear. But if core members would read this list, that would know this.
>> Do you really think extension developers that simple-minded to request an
>> empty directory without any deeper motivation.
>> 
>> As we from ECT can't technically write on the core list, it is the
>> logical consequence that the members of the core list need to inform
>> themself on the ECT list. They also have the technical possibility to
>> write on this list and ask for informations before making harum scarum
>> decisions, due to lack of informations and they know they should do so.
>> 
>> If the core list is a closed list, this is to protect the core team
>> from all those people who only do feature requests without contributing
>> anything. That is OK so far. The danger with this is, that it encourages
>> encapsulation and ignorance. If a mentality is creeping up that leads to
>> this kind of ignorance towards requests of other active members of the
>> community it is time to rant.
> 

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