[TYPO3-ttnews] Switch to news

[Robert Wildling]

Hi,

Thanks for your response, Georg! It must be hard for you: you did 
actually the work that most of us needed - rewrite the all important 
news ext - and still: critique all over the place...

Well - as for me: I love your news ext! So much that it should actually 
be a core ... ;-)

No, to be serious: The whole discussion here is not only about the 
"news" ext. There is more to TYPO3, which bothers many users.

And actually - no offense, Georg: but you are one of those developers, 
who first says "no" to almost everything that comes from users. That 
makes it a bit hard to keep up fighting for an idea, because: how can 
things be changed, if a non-programmer has a need for sth? (Lets not 
discuss the ext system a "pay a developer"-line now, that's just not the 
only way.) I would like to read one discussion here where you go along 
with the idea of another... sorry, but true for me. Please proof me wrong!

I would very much like to talk to a core developer here who actually 
really thinks along with what users need. But where are they?

The simple answer to your "whys" and "buts" is: because other systems 
ship it natively. It is a standard. It is one of those things that makes 
live easier. It is an "overall usability feature". Very much the same 
like the close button in the top left or right corner of a window or the 
context menu that pops up when clicking the right mouse. How would you 
feel if you had to change to a computer system that doesn't have those 
features? Or tells you to install it first and then configure, maybe 
even with each startup??

I won't dig into the "how much time is necessary to install and configue 
the thing to just make it work within the system - that is not even for 
the frontend yet" discussion - because it is old and well known. It 
would be easily expressable in numbers - asis the need for the news-ext 
over others - well: workspace is core, so no way to tell how many REALLY 
need it ... maybe my sister for her rabbits ... but not so much my 
mother for the dinner recipies ... who knows...

But: google for TYPO3 tt_news and TYPO3 Workspace - and I think the 
answer is there.

TYPO3 could be made easier and faster to achieve results and also for 
you to maintain it - see the subheader discussion - turning it off just 
opens the possibility for new bugs; why not just leave it on and when 
empty don't render it??? That's easier FOR ALL OF US, including the 
developers!!!

But only core developer can change that.

I apologize for any unmeasured critique - it was meant as friendly as 
possible.
And I again would like to emphazie that I DO VERY MUCH APPRECIATE your, 
Georg Ringer, work!!! Since years!

Regards,
Robert

> Hi Robert,
>
> thanks for the input.
>
>
> Am 17.09.2011 13:39, schrieb Robert Wildling:
>> This discussion is characterized by the very standard arguments coming
>> from the core developers. And "The People behing TYPO3 is also you" is
>> exactely one of them.
>
> still true for all open source and community projects.
>
>> Not all people behing TYPO3 are programmers - actually I assume only a
>> small percentage is.
>
> and all others are also very important.
>
>> So meanwhile as a web developer (in Europe at least) there is _no way_
>> around TYPO3, if one wants to stay in business - whether you like TYPO3
>> or not, you _need to know it_!
>
> that is not true. Web developer is far more than just websites. there
> are many other CMS which are powerful, not so much with open source but
> still many others and also even other programming languages.
>
>> Shall
>> everybody donate to TYPO3 so that the features that are really necessary
>> will one day get implemented?
>
> you will need other things than me. Just because you don't need DAM or
> workspaces, this doesn't that many others also don't need it.
>
>> I personally won't, because developers do
>> their thing and seem to absolutely no be willing to implement the
>> features that so many people need who made it famous - and who are now
>> depended on TYPO3.
>
> what are features which are needed by so many people?
>
>> Is is nothing else but the truth that every other major CMS has a news
>> module.
>
> Sorry but I don't really get *one* thing. What would the difference be
> with hacing news as core extension than as normal extension? Only
> difference would be that it is shipped within the core and not through
> the extension maanager.
>
> *Everything else* is the same:
> - Bugs are fixed when somebody got time and interest (or is paid)
> - It is developed by core developers
> - Hard tries to make it easy to use, translated and well integrated with
> the newest TYPO3 version.
>
>
>> The - again - often read "excuse" that "the core team does not
>> have the man power" ... is lame and boring.
>
> But still true ;)
>
>> Why do you have the man
>> power for a workspace module? Or a link validator? Or the new Extension
>> manager?
>
> Because some people are interested in that features and got time or
> being paid.
>
>
>> Actually so admirable that I wonder what is so difficult with
>> a basic news system? Extend the date functionalies, integrate a category
>> system, maybe a new menu type for archive menues - and voila!
>
> It so dificult because a simple thing is in many so cases so much not
> that thing you need. TYPO3 is not just to make a website for your little
> sisters rabbit ;)
>
>> - A news system is needed by way more people than a workspace / link
>> validator and other stuff
>
> Maybe true, but the features needed are so different. As always, life is
> not that simple.
>
>> - A news system actually WAS ORIGINALLY SHIPPED with TYPO3 when Kaspar
>> brought it to the market. It was maybe not very rich of features as was
>> tt_news, but actually I do not understand why that respective news
>> module wasn't developed any further. Please explain, core team.
>
> TYPO3 got the concept of extensions. It is a tough decision to say
> "extension xyz" should be a core extension. Therefore hardcoded stuff
> should go out of the core. There is code inside the core about tt_board
> &  co and this is just wrong because it makes everything harder to maintain.
>
>
>> Well - make news a core EXT again! It is just about time I'd say!
>
>
> BTW just because news is not a core extension now doesn't mean that it
> never will be. It is true: It was time for an extbase based news
> extension. So what TYPO3 needs are uses which test this extension, help
> at many places like providing better templates, a better manual and so
> on to make the extension even better because the end user doesn't really
> care if it is an core ext or not.
>
>> The problem with all that discussion here is that we as users won't have
>> any chance either way, because the core team cooks its own soup - a vey
>> good soup, but not one for every day hunger.
>
> Well said but I doubt the core team will ever create a dinner which fits
> *everybody*
>
>> Meanwhile, actually, I think it is too late to incorporate a news
>> feature into the core.
>
> changing it would be easy but again I dont get it what would change for
> you. This wouldn't bring any guarantee that the news extension would get
> even better just because it is in the core.
>
>> how well is TYPO3 core code, if it is sooo
>> difficult and / or time consuming to implement a news feature?
>
> writing a sys ext is the same as writing a normal ext.
>
>> Putting
>> all the weight on Rupi who did a great job with tt_news does not seem
>> fair to me at all!!!
>
> and as far as I know, there was hardly any positive effect for rupi. He
> didn't get much donations or similiar.
>
>> There must be reason why he left off from TYPO3...
>
> Ask him ;) I know that feeling too, having sometimes not so much time
> for the core or for my extensions because TYPO3 is just not the most
> important thing in my life.
>
>> Again - core team, beloved core team: it is really time to rethink!!!
>> You do get lost in all your fancy configuration stuff and additional
>> features that you completely lost the view for the things that are needed!
>
> I still thing: The core needs to be the thing which needs to be good.
> Without this awesome extbase, news extension wouldn't be that cool *and*
> I wouldn't have the chance to do many cool extensions for customer'S
> projects (which will never be in TER).
>
> And again: Use the news extension, make it better and will be better for
> everybody, no matter if it is in the core or not.
>
> Georg