[Typo3-marketing] OSCOM update and opinion about consultancies

[Jan-Hendrik Heuing [netfielders]]

Well, I had something in mind I could not get into words, and this clearly
states what it is about :-)

> > I do tend to disagree with the notion that it's a company's job to find
the
> > "right" consultancy. For example, there are thousands of Web design
agencies
> > in the world. How can one company find the "right" one? If we left it up
to
> > them, then we haven't done our jobs. We need to be proactive and make
sure
> > they "find" us. I think we need to narrow down the choices for companies
by
> > providing categories in the T3 consultancy database. A company does not
want
> > to email hundreds of T3 consultants just to find the "right" one. They
don't
> > have the time and we are the ones that need to be promoting T3.

That's it !

We've got clients looking for some company for setting up there website.
That is what we've got now: The potential client can have a look at projects
done (estimation if it's the right "quality" of design) etc.., then the
client can choose the people to ask for an offer. Actualy I like Daniel's
wizard-idea further down.

Then we've got the other group, which is Michelle also talking about, and
which is not properly taken care of: They need proper commercial support. If
you have a problem, you need to solve -within time-, then you need to find
the right company quickly. This is what we do a lot in germany, we also had
some contact to UK and US (not a lot, which could be supported via an
english version of our pages... ;-))
But if they have questions about extensions, about internals of typo3,
they've got like a hand full of companies who are able to come up with
serious support.
And that again is split in two categories: individuals and companies, who
are both able to support, but obviously with different priorities. Having
freelancer and fullserver combined with some "we can do projects", and "we
are supporter" sounds like a good idea.

> I agree with Michelle. Potentially we already have a lot of info in the
> database. We could easily cross-reference the consultancy and reference
> tables, so that wwe could make some "find your consultancy"-wizard on the
> page.
>
> 1. select country and region
> 2. your industry (matched from the reference-table)
> 3. select technical level (eCommerce, eBusiness,
Backoffice-Integration...)
> 4. services needed (consulting, programming, grafics, hosting...)

Sounds great to me. Maybe some simple search as fine for the first stage.
Anyway, if you are set, tell me if we can help setting up that extension, if
Kasper is busy.

> Then the wizard would list all hits that match at least the country and
the
> services and show all entries in the order of their matching any other
> criteria.
>
> This would be easy to make for .com and would also allow some filters,
like
> consultancie without references do not get listed, consultancies not
> selected for .com lack some "certification-flag" ...

How could we certificate a company ? Obviously it's not a good idea to come
up with some sort of workshop. Many people wil not have that posibillity.
I've got something like a contest or just some sort of test in mind. You've
got to solve some problem, which is like something advanced. See if people
are able to solve problems which are not "standard". That would be a
posibillity for certifing typo3-knowledge.

I know, Ben/Sander will now say something about it... :-) Well, on the
Typo-Script-Level you still have no problems joining. We just have to find a
way about what to do with these "resellers", which also should be taken into
account.

> > Another example: T3 is being recognized in schools and universities. You
> > said that you are not really into the education part. So if a school is
> > looking for a T3 consultant, they could look in the database and find
> > consultants that specialize in that. If a T3 consultant doesn't want to
> > specialize in that, they wouldn't be listed under that category.
>
> Exactly. The point is the specialisation is demonstrated by references in
my
> model wizard.
>
> >
> > I think this would save the users who are looking for a consultant a lot
of
> > time and also they would be less frustrated in the process.
> >
> > At my freelance company, my clients are not solely interested in costs
from
> > the start. We provide "custom" solutions and I cannot give them a set
price
> > in the beginning. If they email me and say, "How much will a T3 site
cost?".
> > I tell them that I need a complete description of their project and
goals
> > first, then I consult them on the best method to achieve this. After
that, I
> > can work up an accurate proposal. For my company we are concerned with
the
> > quality of services before cost. On the other hand, we do offer ready
made
> > templates for our hosting clients. Those come with a set price. Support
and
> > customization are extra. So I do understand your point about clients
looking
> > solely at cost, but you must understand that it is not always the case,
> > especially with larger companies.
>
> The same experience goes for us. We do get some price-based inquiries, but
> frankly we do not invest must time in these potential customers, if we can
> not convince them that solid project work is always cheaper and more
> effective even in mid-term, than short term savings (that almost always
bust
> during the project anyway).

But this has got nothing todo with the determin the quality of a company, or
did I get something wrong ?

> > Also, I agree that TYPO3 is still young and that is why I said that
these
> > are things "far down the road", but they are still things we need to
think
> > about now. Daniel is doing a great job setting things up to work
correctly
> > now so that things will go smoothly in the future.  I just wanted to
relay
> > people's concerns that were shared at OSCOM. Let's not forget that TYPO3
> > still does not have the name recognition of Zope, Midgard, PHPNuke and
> > PostNuke, etc.(at least here in the US) even though it's been around
longer
> > and, in my opinion, is a better product. This is what we are trying to
> > change and since consultancies are, for most companies, representatives
of
> > T3, we need to make sure they show T3 in a good light.
>
> I would really like to go down this path a little further and would like
to
> find out why TYPO3 is so much less known in the US.
> In Europe it is very obvious that the market is driven by developers: they
> offer TYPO3 to their clients thus pushing it. So it would be logical to
look
> at their sources of information. Now in the mean time TYPO3 has pretty
good
> exposure in the tech-press, but I think many people came to it through
> resources like sourceforge and freshmeat. Why then was the impact so much
> stronger in Germany then in the US or the UK?
>
> My guess is that both these economies have rather weak SME-sectors
compared
> to Germany and central Europe. In other words, the CMS market is very
> upscale and sophisticated technology is somewhat reserved to these large
> corporations that are catered to by Vignette et al.
>
> So I would believe we need to communicate through the business
associations
> and get some exposure in the more popular press in the US and UK.
>
>
> > I do like the survey and think that will help things quite a bit. I'm
just
> > worried if you base a consultancy on whether they pay for a listing or
not,
> > you aren't really looking at the quality of their services, but just on
> > whether they paid some money for a listing. I'd like to think that there
is
> > more to a good consultant than that.
>
> Actually I have a really strange problem with the payment idea: I don't
know
> what to do with the money. Kasper will surely not accept it, since he does
> not want to control these entries. I don't want it either since that would
> change my and everyone elses perspective for working for TYPO3.

And this does not state the quality at all... What about all the freelancer
who might not be able to pay some fee ? What about the companies pretending
anything but paying ?

I'd forget about this idea.

> > In the internet world, you have people paying for listings in search
engines
> > like Google. How many people think those companies are "good" just
because
> > they paid to be listed there? How many users click on their links just
> > because they are listed at the top or on the side? I tend to not click
on
> > those links at all.
> >
> > Of course, if you ask me, I'm still not sure what the best way would be
to
> > judge consultancies! :) I do like the idea that they should be
contributing
> > to T3 community in some measurable way.
>
> My words exactly :-)


---------
Not directly connected, but this thing came into my mind while reading about
the wizard:
We are making offers for projects in switzerland. Via people in switzerland
we would also be able to come up with local training etc., but we are not
able to connect the company-records to more than one country. Kasper once
said "just add a second record". Again, as you are not able to connect a
project to more than one company, you end up with saying in switzerland
"have a look at the record for germany". This would be of course a work
around. What we have in mind: With our new pages, we will also provide an
english version, and we will also provide consulting for companies outside
germany. Basically this is not project related work (still could be), but
more like commercial support for companies if needed (companies selling
typo3-solutions themself, but having propblems with details like extensions
etc...). How could that be integrated ? To me it looks a bit like it does
not make sense having a few records for various countries... ;-) Especialy
because priority is different. If someone wants to do a project in the
states, they would choose a company in the states as it's much cheaper at
the end (phonecalles, timeshift...). But they still might be interesting in
our support, as there might be not the right companies in the same
country...

jh