[Neos] WCM in 2017

[Jigal van Hemert]

Hi,

On 7-6-2013 18:45, Mathias Schreiber wrote:
> Jigal van Hemert schrieb:
>> - we have a developer-oriented community. To me that means that other
>> talents we desperately need (vision, ux, design, marketing, ...) are
>> somehow not active in the community. This is a shame and we somehow need
>> to activate these talents... (but how?)
>
> Interesting question.
> To me it seems to be a top-down problem right now.
> Means: Enhancing UX is not "cool" enough for the average "give-me-php"
> coder type of guy.

The majority of the Active Contributors is not like that. If you're not 
a UX expert it's hard to suggest changes. Felix Kopp is currently rather 
active in the UX/UI department, but for too long the activity of the 
UX/UI team was almost zero.

> Plus a "pure" developer often lacks the view of the average editor.
> This is not because they are stupid or not willing to... I for myself
> produce music... and thus listen to a song on the radio in a totally
> different fashion.

Correct. It's often easier to build things the way you like to use them. 
On the other hand, if there is a vision how things should be for 
different for different target audiences I'm sure the devs will 
implement that.

> Our current experiences are that you're not invited to the club if you
> haven't commited like X lines of code. Three people approached me apart
> from each other and shared the same story.

That seems to be an opinion that is kept alive by some people. Anybody's 
opinion is valued. If you want to have a serious response it's important to:
- give as much detail as possible ("Can anybody tell me why TYPO3 
doesn't send any mails")
- try to suppress your frustration ("I really can't understand why this 
hasn't been fixed! Don't you test things before releasing it!?!?")
- respond to requests for feedback
- realize that we're all part of the community that produces TYPO3 CMS 
and Neos
- understand that testing is important. Although we have a lot of 
technical tests, testing the product on a lot of installations is the 
only way to make it rock solid. Everybody can help with testing.

>> - from other responses it seems that exchanging information is an
>> important feature for the future. As we have an active group of
>> developers this shouldn't be a huge problem. The hardest part is to
>> figure out the features this must have and the standards (if any) it
>> needs to support. For this we desperately need the inactive talents.
>
> Yeah, this opens up a new vector of problems.
> See, the "code-guy" doesn't want to be told what the market needs.

Wrong assumption.

> This is why innovation that could make it to the market has basically
> stopped.

No, nobody has seriously created any concepts for these kinds of 
innovation. Take your ideas to any TYPO3 event and make people 
enthusiastic about the idea. Form a forge project, write blog/buzz 
articles, post in lists/newsgroups/forum and invite people to 
participate in the forge project. Contact the CMS/Neos team and get 
support from the release manager / release team.

> Before you put me off with the classic "ah, Mattes is ranting again"
> hear me out... I'm fine with being put away later ;-)
>
> Name three features that have had marketing impact since 4.2.x
> Having impact means solving an editors problem.
> I can't name one - which is sad.
>
> We have awesome technology under the hood... which basically doesn't
> really bother the every day editor.
>
> I am willing to help here.
> Since I can't provide code (I'm too old for this ;-)) I can provide
> experience - customer demands, see-beyond-ones-own-nose thinking etc.
> The problem is that as soon as you come up with things the
> market..heck...TYPO3 in total needs to stay competitive, you get the
> same answer... scratch your own itch.

We shouldn't tolerate such answers. But... you can scratch a bit with 
rest and start a project and find people who are interested in 
developing the features!

> It would need a massive change of mind in order to get both "sides" to
> work together again.
> For those curious how we managed that "in-those-days (tm)":
> Back in 2003 we sat together in a rather huge group of people and
> brainstormed about upcoming features the market demanded.
> Basically individual folks came up with the stuff THEY needed, but the
> collective took the bits and pieces and made them even better that ones
> initial idea.

There is currently no group / team that do such things for TYPO3 / Neos. 
There were plans for a product board or whatever label the group may 
have, but that was abandoned.
Maybe you can organise something to collect ideas for future features, 
collect the needs of the users and start scratching?

> Bottomline is I'd strongly suggest to have something like this again.
> Some sort of meeting thats dedicated to doing concepts and brainstorming
> rather than code.

Please do! I bet that a lot of stuff from a feature wish list will be 
picked up by the developers if the brainstorming team makes enough noise.

-- 
Jigal van Hemert
TYPO3 CMS Active Contributor

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