[TYPO3-50-general] New templating system?

[Gregory Remington]

Duch makes some very good points here regarding classical projects and 
team work! Most "web agencies" I know work this way.

Another thing we have to consider are large corporate clients, like 
Cisco WebEx, who are using TYPO3 sites extensively built on TemplaVoila. 
What are they going to have to "pay" to migrate to TYPO3 5.0's new HTML 
based templating system? What happens to web agencies responsible for 
maintaining high profile TemplaVoila sites like WebEx as we near TYPO3 v5.0?

http://webex.com has been relying on TYPO3 and advanced implementations 
of TemplaVoila since 2007 as seen here in this article by the founder of 
AOE media GmbH, Kian T. Gould.
http://typo3.org/fileadmin/t3n/articles/t3n_nr16_cisco_webex.pdf

"Novel FCE Conzept
For the conversion to TYPO3 it was not only necessary to create a 
completely new architecture, but to implement a new concept for Flexible 
Content Elements (FCE) as well. With the help of an especially developed 
Advanced Template Wizard it was possible to achieve complete freedom in 
implementing the corporate designs  for the internet as well as an easy 
way to maintain the websites. The new and extended template wizard 
completely overwrites the previous standard settings of the 
TemplaVoilà-Wizard and offers a multitude of new functionality for the 
editor at the same time."

Gregory Remington


Duch (aka. Grégory Duchesnes) wrote:
> Le 22 mars 2010 à 15:54, Thomas Fritz a écrit :
> 
>> 2010/3/22 Michael Sauter <mail at michaelsauter.net>
>>
>>> You are absolutely right, mapping is a complicated stuff, but IMHO, you
>>>> are wrong to state that using Fluid would be a more simple approach. Fluid
>>>> requires new technical knowledge where existing techniques such as
>>>> TemplaVoilà only require HTML knowledge and a little Typoscript therefore it
>>>> is not much simpler to newbies.
>>>>
>>> I would say the opposite is true ;)
>>> To me, FLUID is very easy for beginners, because it does not add new syntax
>>> (okay, there is the shorthand syntax, but ...). It's like learning a couple
>>> of new HTML tags. Much easier than learning TypoScript, especially to
>>> someone who does templates and is not a developer.
>>
>> I do not know TypoScript and i do not know FLUID. I only SAW the syntax in
>> documentations and so... And i have to say that i feel much more comfortable
>> with FLUID and i think it is easier to learn IMHO, because of its HTML like
>> Syntax. Just wanted to share my feeling about that...
>>
> 
> You're right, if you don't know anything about Typo3, Fluid seems easier at first sight but there's one thing to take into account when you deal with websites : team work.
> 
> In a classical project, the team is composed of the following skills : HTML/CSS guy, Typo3 guy and content creator guy, the famous Mr. Raphael, Benoit and Picouto described in the modern template building tutorial.
> What is pushed forward in this tutorial is that these people can work work together without knowing the skills of each other and in our case, Mr Raphael does need to know anything about Typo3 to build his HTML/CSS.
> 
> With a "classical" mapping solution such as TemplaVoilà or jetts, this scheme is still valid since the HTML file is never changed. More importantly if Mr Raphael needs to change his HTML markup for some reason (let's say a bug in IE6) he will still work in a plain HTML file and there are good chances (if mapping is done correctly) that his changes would not even be noticed by Mr Benoit. This scheme resulsts in a very good separation between content and logic and this is what i really like.
> 
> Now working with Fluid, the process will be somewhat different and once Mr. Benoit has modified the HTML template to add specific Fluid markup, the HTML can not be passed along to Mr. Raphael anymore unless he also learns Fluid.
> 
> This might not be a problem for an individual working on small Typo3 websites, but it is indeed a problem taht needs to be addressed when you deal with large teams where you will need to train all the Raphaels around.
> 
> Of course Fluid offers many advantages, but this kind of drawback can not be forgotten in professional context and i'm pretty confident that the Core team will take this into account.
> 
> 
> 
>>
>>> I must admit that the approach i'm presenting is more 4.x oriented, and by
>>>> the way it is not really an "approach" since it is already up and running.
>>>> So it is more 4.x oriented but still i wanted to share the idea of using the
>>>> power of Firebug with you.
>>>>
>>> Yes, I think my approach is based a lot on the concept of models like we
>>> have them in FLOW3.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm one of those guy who don't like to re-invent the wheel and like to use
>>>> good stuffs if they already exist ;-)
>>>>
>>> Very true, but often good things come from taking something that is out
>>> there and redo it to make it better. Anyway, I don't feel my solution is
>>> reinventing at all - it only puts together concepts that are already out
>>> there and that will be familiar to most people dealing with TYPO3 v5 (only
>>> FLUID knowledge needed)
>>
>> It may some kind offtopic. I have no experience with TypoScript nor FLUID
>> nor TemplateViola. Does FLUID supersede TypoScript or how do they relate to
>> each other? Does FLOW3 needs TypoScript? Or is it Typo3 related as the name
>> implies?
>>
>> Kind regards
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