[TYPO3-50-general] Technical concepts for TYPO3 v5 backend

ries van Twisk typo3 at rvt.dds.nl
Mon Feb 9 03:00:58 CET 2009

On Feb 8, 2009, at 7:48 PM, Thomas Allmer wrote:

> Martin Kutschker wrote:
>> Anway, there is all kind of stuff you can do nowadays with JS to  
>> get a
>> decent and powerful UI. I can imagine that you can many fields in a
>> retro way with many boring server-client round-trips, but I guess  
>> that
>> there are limits. How shall an RTE field work without JS? Do you  
>> suggest
>> to use only RTEs with a limited feature set that BBcode and friends  
>> offer.
> no, that's not what I said...
> it just means that there must be an textarea and if js is enabled it
> should be replaced by a real RTE. However we start at the textarea :)

I was reading a bit about progressive enhancement, the concept is 'ok'  
if you read it,
bit for me it looks like a maintenance nightmare at the same time (for  
BE of T3 V5) plus..... read on...

It's like the Boing 747 (as TYPO3 is sometimes compared to) to needs  
to beable to
fly on coal, gasoline, neutral gas (euro 95 and euro 98) and preferred  
with or without wings.

Going back to the RTE example, if you ask my clients, and I show them  
the RTE with just HTML
code, they will NOT say to me 'Heeey cool Ries, now that's what I call  
progressive ENHANCEMENT!!'
NO, they will simply curse me to death and ask me to get the bloody  
RTE in place ASAP.

I do think that PE is good for a rendered website for various reasons,
but a management tool that T3 V5 needs simply has some requirements
when it comes to browser and JS compatibility.

>> How about creating HTML mockups for the many field types a CMS  
>> offers?
>> If you really care about this progressive enhancement stuff then  
>> the JS
>> is secondary, because *everything* must work without JS. So IMHO the
>> works has to be done with the basics, that is plain HTML. After  
>> that the
>> icing with JS may come in.
> Quote Jeremy Keith: "We’ve clarified that universality does not mean
> that everyone gets the same experience—that everyone, no matter what
> their device or browser goes to a Web site or Web application and they
> all have the same experience. That’s not the idea. I don’t think that
> really follows the spirit of the Web anyway. I’m talking more about a
> site that can adapt to the needs of the people who use any particular
> device."
> The first block is really good, you may also listen to the audio
> recording (about the first 20 minutes)
> http://adactio.com/articles/1349/
> Basically what I would do here. Provide a simple input field and you  
> can
> enter the id. If you have javascript you get a nice inlinePopup or  
> some
> other ajax magic that will allow you more easily select the id you may
> search for. This is about the different user experience :p.
> However if we think a little bit more about it we might even find a  
> nice
> solution for html only...

I am sorry... but the input field with to enter an ID for a user is  
not really usable for
an CMS (how do you get an ID in a 10000 page website???)
and I would suggest not to make the feature work (it needs to get  
tested to, remember??)

Go to Jeremy's website and disable cookies... then select a other theme,
i really LOOOVE the adactizilla so much that without that theme I cannot
read his site.... However when I turn off cookies and select other  
pages I cannot read his site anymore
and I need to keep on selecting that theme all over again for each and  
every page.
Jeremy simply could pass the theme name as a get parameter to all  
pages, but he doesnt!!!!
And Jeremy's doesn't allow me to enter the theme name as a input field  
( I 'could' have
a browser where dropdowns don't work......)

I KNOW I am over exaggerating a tiny little bit, but what I am trying  
to say is that a CMS
has minimal requirements (PHP5, MySQL 5.x, minimum memory requirements  
etc... etc..)
so also for the management tool. Apart from that I think it would be a  
maintenance nightmare
to test for all these situations, there is already enough problems  
with the differences between browsers.

Just my humble opinion.


>> PS: Forms are not everything. The whole UI has to be planned from
>> scratch.
> yeah, that's the idea here. Now we have a chance - we can change  
> things
> - we can start over.
> cheers
> -- 
> +--------------------------------- 
> +-----------------------------------+
> | Thomas Allmer                   |   http:// 
> www.delusionworld.com    |
> | E-mail: at at delusionworld.com    |   phone: +43 699  
> 16217064         |
> +--------------------------------- 
> +-----------------------------------+
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			regards, Ries van Twisk

Ries van Twisk
tags: Freelance TYPO3 Glassfish JasperReports JasperETL Flex Blaze-DS  
WebORB PostgreSQL DB-Architect
email: ries at vantwisk.nl
web:   http://www.rvantwisk.nl/
skype: callto://r.vantwisk
Phone: +1-810-476-4196
SIP: +1-747-690-5133

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