[TYPO3-hci] 4.1 = menubar/iconbar/dashboard; lets go!

Kasper Skårhøj kasper2006 at typo3.com
Thu Oct 12 17:40:32 CEST 2006 

Hi Troels,

Without the icons I think many admins will be in despair for quick  
access to modules. But as you can read I will make it configurable  
and substitutable. The final test and adjustments can be in the  
usability sessions.

About moving controls into the icon panel I see your point and it  
should be possible that modules in the content frame can call up  
controls in the top. I will consider that.



On Oct 12, 2006, at 16:53 , Troels Kjær Rasmussen wrote:

> Jumping in to the discussion, please forgive me if I missed  
> something or
> contribute with redundant information.
>
> I checked out Kaspers video and think it´s really great -  
> especially I´m
> in love with the dashboard idea. One thing, however I noticed as a  
> case
> of "maybe not so proper" usability is the redundancy in fuctionality
> between the main menu and the subpanel. Again comming from a users
> perspective redundant functionality is hard to comprehend,  
> especially if
> the redundancy is not well described in the userinterface itself.
>
>  From the old UI a couple of redundant "classics" where the save/save
> and view/save and close/close buttons, which appeared on both the top
> and the bottom of forms.In fact these represented a double redundancy,
> because the buttons had what seemed as (almost) the same functionality
> to the users. Also the choice of clearing cache in both dropdowns  
> and as
> an icon in the form confused it´s share of endusers.
>
> My suggestion or thought would/could be to employ the subpanel as a  
> form
> control rather than a second (this time iconbased) option to access
> modules or funtions already appearing in the main bar.
>
> Also simplification could be done by sorting out elements in default
> views (save,close,save and close as known from unnamed userinterfaces)
> and a simple javascript Advanced foldout tab. Then when users need  
> more
> tools in the default view they could simply pull things from the
> advanced tab to the customized default view (scriptoulus?).
>
> The same advanced pullouts could be implemented in the (view more)  
> icon
> or whatever it is in the forms themselves.
>
> I´ve deliberately pointed out things, which I think could be done with
> (extensive, though) DHTML/javascript manipulation of the EXISTING  
> forms,
> so we would necesarrily have to recode alt_doc a.s.o.
>
> Well the best way to see things is by visualization, so here goes a
> dummy snapshot (and sorry for the poor quality)...
>
> http://troels.linkfactory.dk/UI.png
>
>
>
> regards (...and currently putting on his teflonsuit!)
> Troels Kjær Rasmussen, Denmark
>
>
>
>
> Kasper Skårhøj skrev:
>> Sorry for that.
>>
>> I love drag-n-drop for moving. We should have that in TemplaVOila  
>> page
>> module, normal page module, list module as well - and for files. But
>> this is not the focus of the 4.1 release.
>>
>> AJAX page tree - I would see what Ingmar Schlect has made for 4.1 -
>> something happened at T3DD in August.
>>
>> Tabs for Web submodules. I think they support erics idea. Are that  
>> tabs
>> just linking to the modules or do you have separate IFRAMES for  
>> each (to
>> switch quickly between already opened tabs)?
>>
>> I suggest, your tabs move up to the tabbar I plan for the top of my
>> suggestion (see my mail to patrick). SHoluld be possible for you.
>>
>> - kasper
>>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2006, at 12:40 , Maximo Cuadros wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,  Kasper, this is the screencast:
>>> http://t3.mcuadros.es/fileadmin/ext/DojoWebModule.html
>>>
>>> I post it in another thread.
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>> On 10/11/06, Erich Althaus - CS2 <erich.althaus at cs2.ch> wrote:
>>>> Hi there
>>>>
>>>>> We could also decide that the Web>Page module becomes  
>>>>> Web>Pagetree?
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm? I think one of the Problems the End Users have is the Thing
>>>> that they are not able to make the Link that the Modules are not
>>>> Functions, only different Views. I think this is one of the Points
>>>> which irritates them the most.
>>>>
>>>> That's why I decided to move those views directly to Content. Then
>>>> it's clear where those infos belong to.
>>>>
>>>> In actual BE when clicking on Web>Page, it does not show  
>>>> Pagetree, it
>>>> shows Pagetree with a View of the Page. Same in Web>List, this  
>>>> shows
>>>> Pagetree with List View. Therefore the Naming is correct, on my  
>>>> point
>>>> of view.
>>>>
>>>> Kasper, do you haven a visual Example (Screenshot) what you
>>>> understand under Word "Dashboard"?
>>>>
>>>> Greets and Thx
>>>>
>>>> Erich
>>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: typo3-team-hci-bounces at lists.netfielders.de
>>>> [mailto:typo3-team-hci-bounces at lists.netfielders.de] Im Auftrag von
>>>> Kasper Skårhøj
>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Oktober 2006 12:17
>>>> An: TYPO3 human computer interaction team
>>>> Betreff: Re: [TYPO3-hci] 4.1 = menubar/iconbar/dashboard; lets go!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Patrick!
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to read Erich struck something!
>>>>
>>>>> 1- The highlight (for me...) is the fact that the page tree (and
>>>>> Filelist) are written, easily selectable and visible.
>>>>
>>>> I have decided to add yet an area: The tabbar. So we have menubar/
>>>> iconbar/tabbar. Iconbar and tabbar are only shown if there are
>>>> content in them of course.
>>>>
>>>> In the tab bar we can place tabs linking to theoretically anything,
>>>> but by default we can install a link to Web>Page and File>Filelist.
>>>> We allow alternative namings.
>>>>
>>>> In the right side of the tab bar I want the actual running  
>>>> module to
>>>> install things with AJAX. This could be tabs to submodules as Erich
>>>> suggest. Or for say the Doc module it could be buttons like "SAVE"
>>>> "CANCEL" etc.
>>>>
>>>> With this, Erichs suggestion can be implemented, but the  
>>>> framework is
>>>> more generally able to host other usages for other needs extensions
>>>> will have.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pagetree (as we almost call it) is so much better than Web- 
>>>>> >Page as
>>>>> it's
>>>>>   straight forward, use the "real" name and is for most  
>>>>> editors, the
>>>>> central point of TYPO3.
>>>>
>>>> We will allow people to put an alternative name on the tabs.
>>>>
>>>> We could also decide that the Web>Page module becomes Web>Pagetree?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2- I'm not sure for the clipboard in case of a large >200 pages
>>>>> Pagetree. We're used to normal apps with Edit->Paste so maybe
>>>>> Clipboard
>>>>> is a good contender for the application bar (Kasper's  
>>>>> horizontal bar).
>>>>
>>>> The trick to make the new design work is using an IFRAME to run  
>>>> what
>>>> was previously in the bigger framesets "content" frame. Hence, I  
>>>> see
>>>> no way we can have drag-n-drop across frames into a clipboard. The
>>>> idea is nice though but should be implemented inside the frames
>>>> themselves.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3- The view from Eric mock up is for no apparent reason more
>>>>> temptating
>>>>> to use. I never used the view/magnified glass available in the  
>>>>> last 3
>>>>> years but with the tab it's more likely I would use it. Maybe  
>>>>> it's the
>>>>> fact that it's almost instantly showing(since it's just a mock  
>>>>> up) and
>>>>> that give me this impression of usefulness suddenly...
>>>>>
>>>>> 4- The faux-spotlight menu showned in Kasper's video could  
>>>>> possibly
>>>>> replace the old "Search string/Show record" and then make the  
>>>>> editing
>>>>> area less packed. (see the box in list view in Eric's work)
>>>>>
>>>>> 5- We must bring the Undo/history feature easier to reach. The
>>>>> thing is
>>>>> that we have Versionning that also kind of compete in the same  
>>>>> area.
>>>>> This is a tab or section that needs to be further analyzed with  
>>>>> people
>>>>> that never used TYPO3.
>>>>
>>>> We need to wait with this for a later version because its all about
>>>> what is _inside_ the new framework of menu/icon/tab etc. I want to
>>>> create that framework first.
>>>>
>>>> However, its important to have these visions posted already because
>>>> we must make sure our new framework supports with a high  
>>>> possibility
>>>> the future re-organizations of things to make other parts more
>>>> userfriendly!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 6- Help/About/Doc: Mac and Windows used to have the menu item  
>>>>> Help or
>>>>> About that consist of those. So maybe a straight Help menu could
>>>>> effectively group together:
>>>>>    About this server
>>>>>    About modules installed
>>>>>    Documentation/manuals
>>>>>    WebStaff help center (custom link)
>>>>>
>>>>> It should be easy for admin to add links there relative to the  
>>>>> use of
>>>>> their site. I'm thinking about some pages under a sysfolder with
>>>>> How-to
>>>>> or even links to some intranets docs in a corporate environment.
>>>>
>>>> It will be configurable enough for all of this.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe the Help menu could also be the host for some reports,  
>>>>> logs and
>>>>> statistics.
>>>>
>>>> Could be - or the dashboard! This is where I imagine such  
>>>> applications.
>>>>
>>>> Look at Joomla; They have a default screen with such reports
>>>> including a nice matrix of links to various functionality. We  
>>>> should
>>>> ahve the same - but in a dash-board fashion that can be customized.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> (I understand that you feel the old backend was good enough for
>>>>>> admins.
>>>>>> For 4.1 it will definitely stay as an option but we should be  
>>>>>> open to
>>>>>> improvements to the new menu/icon concept that even admins  
>>>>>> like to
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> with in terms of efficiency)
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing that we also should keep in mind is that all those fine
>>>>> personalizations should be lockable so the admin still get  
>>>>> complete
>>>>> control if he wants standard looking BE.
>>>>
>>>> Got it.
>>>> I plan to offer saving them to XML files which can even be
>>>> distributed in extensions - a first step to having predefined  
>>>> "Roles"!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As a rule of the thumb must be: What is not possible to change for
>>>>> a BE
>>>>> user should be invisible. Here I'm referring to the present User-
>>>>>> Setup
>>>>> where users can still see stuff he shouldn't.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.tragamin.com/t3_be/Home.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric, that's fantastic that you did that so fast. I mean, I'm  
>>>>> someone
>>>>> who need stuff from others to dig deeper and with your mock up  
>>>>> I was
>>>>> able to describes ideas I had for a long time. Thanks for that.  
>>>>> And...
>>>>> same for Kasper. It's sadly easier to comment than do the actual
>>>>> coding
>>>>> but we should be able to get it right with the eyeballs in this  
>>>>> group
>>>>> and the help of few new people not used to TYPO3.
>>>>
>>>> I have two roles for this release:
>>>> - Create a framework that facilitates the possibilities anyone  
>>>> wants
>>>> (like Erics and Tapios ideas) [Obligation as a core developer]
>>>> - Solve the problems of my clients. [Personal itch]
>>>>
>>>> Thats it, no more, no less.
>>>>
>>>> - kasper
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Necessity is the mother of invention"
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah the Mothers of Invention...what a musical group.  ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TYPO3-team-hci mailing list
>>>>> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
>>>>> http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-team- 
>>>>> hci
>>>>
>>>> - kasper
>>>>
>>>> "Necessity is the mother of invention"
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> kasper2006 at typo3.com | +45 20 999 115 | skype: kasperskaarhoej |
>>>> gizmo: kasper_typo3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TYPO3-team-hci mailing list
>>>> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
>>>> http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-team-hci
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TYPO3-team-hci mailing list
>>>> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
>>>> http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-team-hci
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TYPO3-team-hci mailing list
>>> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
>>> http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-team-hci
>>
>> - kasper
>>
>> "Necessity is the mother of invention"
>> -------------------------------
>> kasper2006 at typo3.com | +45 20 999 115 | skype: kasperskaarhoej |  
>> gizmo:
>> kasper_typo3
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TYPO3-team-hci mailing list
> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
> http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-team-hci

- kasper

"Necessity is the mother of invention"
-------------------------------
kasper2006 at typo3.com | +45 20 999 115 | skype: kasperskaarhoej |  
gizmo: kasper_typo3

More information about the TYPO3-team-hci mailing list