[Typo3-doc] Reason for dropping DocBook...

[Jean-Marie Schweizer]

Christian Jul Jensen wrote:
> Jean-Marie Schweizer <jms at marktauftritte.ch> writes:
> 
> 
>>I realize that it cannot replace a Wiki as far as ease of writing
>>content and get users to spontaniously write a few lines but I also
>>come to the conclusion that if we want a professional documentation
>>for TYPO3 neither the current typo3.org with SXW nor the Wiki can be
>>it.
> 
> 
> As far as I understand it, I think that Robert's vision is to have
> have a layer like this timtaw <-> typo3.org <-> officelib / sxw, which
> means you can go from sxw to web to wiki and back.
> 
> I think that's a pretty cool solution.

I do too and yet there are obvious ristrictions in terms of an 
professional use when we are talking about numerous documentations.

Hence my question regarding 'dropping DocBook'. I know they talked about 
it but I never heard why they did not go with it since big open source 
projects and O'Reilly rely on DocBook.

> I love LaTeX, I've used for numerous projects, still writes invoices
> and stuff with it, but for this purpose i don't think it's good. 

I like LaTeX myself and I think it still is the best solution regarding 
output for print (PDF).

> First, It's hard to parse it into HTML I think, I've never used it for
> that. Maybe not.. Secondly, it's too lowlevel for a lot of people,
> they can't cope with compiling their texts.
> 
> DocBOOK is XML which is good regarding parsing, but writing XML markup
> by hand got to be one of the most annoying things. I mean that's why
> we use a CMS in the first place right. As long as there ar no good
> DocBOOK editors, I don't see this as an option.

I dont' think you can't compare the XML markup used for DocBook with XML 
used for configuration purposes where you have a lot of markup compared 
to the content. With DocBook the markup is very little compared to the 
content, very much like LaTeX. I wrote a few articles and studies in 
LaTeX myself and learn the markup pretty fast. I think with about 20 to 
30 markup tags you can already write pretty sophisticated documentations.

And there are some client applications that create DocBook although, 
even open source. I read that OO can read and write DocBook, Abiword 
should manage to do it too and even Word has some sort of a solution.

> Is SXW really that hopeless regarding structure and guidelines? 
> It is XML, it has a good frontend that's is widely known and
> understanded.

I think the big problem with any WYSIWYG editor is that it focuses on 
one document in general and doesn't provide many tools to structure. 
Instead it provides design capabilities that are only of interest for 
the typography team that needs to come up with the design guidelines, 
not the writer. I also looked at the XML code of OO and, although much 
cleaner than Words XML it still is bloated.

As far as guideline goes: Although OO, Word or others are able to set 
styles the writers can always ignore it.

With LaTeX and DocBook the writer has no influence regarding the 
presentation: He structures and writers, that's it. IMHO that's the big 
advantage.

Remember, I'm talking about a solution for a writer team that, like the 
TYPO3 devTeam, are willing to follow rules and guidelines. The Wiki (or 
timtaw) should still be available for those who just want to write a few 
lines.

Jean-Marie