[TYPO3-english] inspiring people to share your location

Andreas Becker ab.becker at web.de
Mon Jun 29 08:27:04 CEST 2009

Hi Georg

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Georg Ringer <news at ringerge.org> wrote:

> Hi again,
> Andreas Becker schrieb:
> > yeah they are making money out of it and Open Street Map would be nice if
> we
> > could have also the satellite on it.
> this just won't happen because those images are quite expensive!

I know but still it would be good to have them also available as open source

>  > there is
> > not really a difference beside the fact that you could develop a source
> code
> > further which has been free for use before by yourself.
> Sorry you are wrong again! There is a huge difference and I guess this
> difference is even more important in the poor countries! You are allowed
> to use OSM data in books or anywhere else! You can make a complete map
> of whatever and you don't have to pay a single baht, also no tips!

This is not true with the data from Google (and the company they are
> buying the data from) because they are expensive and it is allowed to
> charge!

You are right but who really cares about this here? ;-)

> > OpenSource doesn't not mean it is always FREE until you will get your
> > website/project ... with this open source running.
> Of course it is! TYPO3 can *never* get non-opensource! This is the cool
> thing about open source - it stays that way! There is absolutly no
> chance that you ever need to pay for it.

You are right and verifying what I wrote. Unfortunately often OpenSource
Code is not well documented and than it will cost you something - that is
what I meant ;-)

> > When you have a look in OSM to the roads already existing on Phuket
> Island
> > than 100% of them are NOT accurate.
> Yeah because OSM doesn't come from nothing - it has to be done by
> someone! As already said .. it is very easy to buy a tracker and you get
> a perfect gpx file from it

Sorry what "Tracker" are you talking about and where can I get it here! for
what price.
People here are earning not as much as in Germany. And even most would have
perhaps a GPS in their Mobile only a few know how to use it and I don't know
if each of it could track stuff. So we would need to train the people first
and Open their mind. But that exactly is the point. As long as you can go to
pantip or patong pr pattaya getting tons of copies this won't happen as
those people grew up in a "copy"-mode which got supported by companies like
MS, Adobe and so on.

> > We tested it out here as we tried them
> > to be used as maps for official purposes. Every time you rent something
> or
> > need to deliver something or get a registered company the officials need
> a
> > map.
> By the way if you want someone to deliver something as a business model
> you are not allowed to use Google Maps print outs I guess

Yes, you are absolutly right but here nobody cares about this if something
is allowed or not. Here you can buy complete printed streetmaps showing the
combined satellite/street view and people are happy with it. If Google won't
be happy with it either they would already have done anything against it.

> > You are perhaps right with the making money thing and they really make
> very
> > good money at the moment.
> It is the right of everyone to do so but it is the same with a CMS. You
> are using TYPO3 not only because it is free but also because of the kind
> of development and how the model works.
> No single line comes from sitting at your desk and watching birds fly
> by. Same in OSM

You are right Georg and this is exactly the problem as using i.e Adobe
Photoshop, DreamWeaver even the complete Adobe Suite on a full powered
Microsoft System (like used in most settings here) is much much cheaper
(about 2 - 4 Euro) than investing even one minute sitting watching birds.
They take a trip to pantip, buy the CDs and DVDs including multiple keys and
crackers and so on and install it. If it is not working they go back to the
shop and get a new updated one. It is a huge industry I would say living
from it including those who should actually control it or those who will
loose the money (MS, Adobe, ...) if this would happen i.e. in Germany.

i.e. in our company we are using ONLY OpenSource Products and a few
applications where we have bought licenses for. We are working together with
BSA - and NO Developer who wants to work with us is able to use his own
"rubbed copied" laptop for work. We had to deny quite a lot of good people
in the past who were not willing to switch and which are now working for
other companies - of course using their laptops. This whole rubbed copy
thing is also ruing our business here like it does for Europe and elsewhere.
But even I have been asked at visits here by people from well known agencies
also from Germany, where it would be possible to buy copies of Microsoft and
Adobe Software! Have a look how many students in Europe are using Students
and Home Versions to earn their money with it instead with OpenSource.

> > Here in Asia people don't think much ahead. Today
> > is today and not tomorrow. So if they can make money today they will make
> > it.
> yeah maybe this is the problem. But you are thinking about tomorrow
> because otherwise you would just use a commercial CMS, you wouldn't care
> about better equipment for schools (yeah I remember the trips *G*) and
> everything.
> It is not about the whole phuket island but about you and what you
> change in the world, right?

You are right Georg we need to start by ourselves to start making a change,
that is what we try to do and step by step we are getting further, but
unfortunately very slowly!
I will see perhaps we can find tomorrow someone who might be interested to
make a project out of this from the university and Map Phuket as a first
If the prof would get some financial benefit out of it, it would work - I am
sure ;-) Unfortunately!

>  > I am pretty sure that they will
> > switch to OSM as soon as this is providing more info also here in Asia
> and
> > than they will make again perhaps even more money ;-) Don't worry about
> > this!
> Yeah, never do something with the own hand, better wait for someone to
> do it ;)

This is what they did more or less always, as to copy something you would
need first the original ;-). That's it why most initiatives came from west
but the better products with much better price values came always from the
east. On the other hand the west could benefit a lot from there relaxed
attitude facing problems and the way how they live and earn. They work and
act much much more in a team to solve and share a task than any Germans
would do. They don't care so much about money but a lot about loosing their
face and lifestyle. They are people you really like and it will be very
difficult to go back after you spent here some time. By the way we have some
places available for interims who would like to join us and our work here at
our Software Development and Training Center at software park.

> > Our customers at the moment don't have their own map servers and they
> don't
> > worry either using Google Maps. Actually they want to use Google Maps.
> They want to have maps and they don't care which company is behind.
> People don't care if Windows or Linux if they can do the same things and
> it looks the same. They really don't care if using IE or FF.

Hmm, not really - unfortunately. They sold those netbooks (ACER) here with
Linux and it worked and looked like Windows but they already changed to use
windows XP instead or give it to you with a freedos version or linpus which
is frustrating. So people stay with MS.

> Mapsevers are also open source, OSM is open source, so as a company you
> can do great stuff like a cool GIS if you really would need it - without
> paying 1 € for any license.

I know, until now we don't need!

> > Here in China, and South East Asia still things which costs are much more
> > worth than an OpenSource Product which is better, more stable.
> yeah I know that, not only there ;)

You can find also TYPO3 burned on a CD at PanTip and they sell it the same
price like the complete newest Adobe Suite with lots of extras for 100 Baht
the DVD = 2 EURO

>  >  They already asked again for support of licenses
> > from Adobe, Microsoft and so on ...
> totally understandable because Photoshop is better than Gimp but if Gimp
> could do the same things, nobodoy would care. If you are writing just
> some documents, you can use OpenOffice without any harm.

GIMP would be already much better than Photoshop if people would use it and
would donate to the project to get a better product but as Photoshop is more
or less free here people - most companies in this region don't use GIMP or
other OpenSource stuff.

> > Any way, your map is great and I like it and it would be nice to have it
> on
> > typo3.org.
> yeah thanks!
> When i launched it, I thought about all those discussions in the
> mailinglists about all the things someone said would be cool like the
> big threads about hosting (long time ago) or the manuals (not so long
> ago). They all die because many people just prefer talking over doing! I
> first do something and then I can talk ;)

That is why I like your stuff very much :-) - You are living Open Source and
Open Minded :-)

Keep on going


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