[Typo3] Strategy for page templates... help needed.

[Tyler Kraft]

Ok so I seemed to have started this flurry of fury - fine but these are 
points that irritate me and probably many other users!

Yes this is a free mailing list. But so is the CMS and ALL the 
extensions, AND ALL the FREE help from this FREE list.  So next time 
maybe accept what experienced users tell you and go back and look again 
at the documentation.

Amir, you are being rude, end of story. Nobody said you were stupid.  In 
fact again go back and read because I said that the only thing us 
experienced users have is time over you.  We have all read the 
documentation so why shouldn't you?

As far as the documentation not helping - you were pointed out the 
answer by me and several others, and you then seemed to have taken a 
belligerent tone. To bad as well because I think you've probably just 
created a sh*t load of animosity towards yourself, and alienated 
yourself from help by a large contingency of the very valuable users and 
the main individuals on this ML.

But the documentation being bad... then quite bitching and do something 
about it! VOLUNTEER YOUR HELP AND TIME!!!  You get for FREE a top notch 
CMS with a brilliant core development team devoted to improving it, and 
expanding it, and a large amount of flexibility all backed by a group of 
experienced users who normally offer their help (but like I said I think 
you might have just lost that). So throw your hand in also, write 
something that helps, even if its a list of the little things that you 
think the documentation needs or needs to improve.  But then don't just 
give it to somebody to do something with, start doing something with it. 
  Volunteer with the doc group for a start.  Like I said you will be 
reading a lot probably and getting to talk to the people about what is 
going on in there documents, seeking clarity for the written word.  But 
no wait I forgot you even stated that you don't want to read that much...

Francesco di Francia makes a good point (btw cool name!). Maybe, just 
maybe though, its an unwise and foolish thing to be rude to the very 
people who you ask and want help from.  Oliver wasn't being rude, he 
offered you a good idea, check if there is a group near you.  BUT 
instead of saying thanks where can I do that, you were asinine to him. 
So now he has publicly stated here on this list that he will not help 
you... seeing as he is a very prominent and useful person on this list 
that was a dumb thing to do I think.  But hey again what do I know about 
  this, most of my few questions seem to get answered here.

As far as your ability to research, what was hard about rereading the 
section pointed out to you?  It clearly stated, and not only that area 
but the introduction of the manual also, that you could do what you 
asked.  So, with something this direct, how can I not question your 
ability to research?  And if your not going to read the manual, then I 
think maybe everyone should get a profit share of any revenue from your 
site, as we are the ones who actually are doing the difficult part.  And 
its not like we don't help either.  For god sake I'm the one who went 
off topic and informed you not only of a flaw in your CSS but what was 
wrong and what you needed to do to correct it. BTW your welcome.

As far as reading your posts - I read all the posts on several lists, 
which is why every day more and more of this CMS makes more and more 
sense.  It is the only way to learn anything.  If you went to university 
would you purchase your grades or read and learn to answer the questions 
and exams?  You HAVE to read lots of posts and documentation.  And its 
not like it takes that much of your time either.  I mean really, I work 
full time and go to university full time doing an Mechanical Engineering 
Masters so its not as if I have lots of extra time to just sit around 
and read these posts for fun.

So Amir, this isn't me being rude in fact I'm not even bothered about 
this at all, but its just me being bold faced and brutally honest with 
you.  If you want others here to figure out and hold your hand on what 
are the most simple things, spend the money. As Michael said most of us 
give back for all we get here.  If that's not an option, learn how to be 
respectful and polite to the people who are trying to help you, or else 
do what we have all done - READ, READ, READ.

AS Kasper says 'seeks help' but don't think we are about to hold your 
hand. There is a reason for the mailing archives, How Tos, and FAQs! 
ITS FOR USERS TO... wait wait here it comes... DO RESEARCH ON THINGS 
THEY NEED TO LEARN TO DO!!!  A fascinating concept, really. Investigate 
it, it just might change your opinion why we all get so annoyed by posts 
like yours.  They make it hard to find information.

And with that I'm not helping you here any more I'm just pontificating. 
You know what we think you need to do- read the documents (yes all of 
them if need be!), user groups, archives, FAQs...

As my gran says 'Like it or lump it'

tk

Amir Mualem wrote:
> This is a free mailing list from what I know and there are no rules 
> against asking a simple question.  If you dont want to answer it or if 
> you want to just be cocky with me, then please just dont reply.  This is 
> my way of finding answers. I am NOT going to go through 5+ 100-page 
> manuals to find a simple answer to a question.  You tell me, maybe this 
> is a lack of manuscript ORGANIZATION or what.  Please do not question my 
> ability to research information because just as Amy said, it just does 
> not pop up as quickly as you think.  No, I am not going to read 5, 6, 7 
> manuals just to learn how to do a fraction of the things.  I have 4 
> documents out, TSRef, TS By Example, Modern Template Building and 
> Futuristic Template building.  This is my way of finding information, 
> now if you dont want to help me out, then please JUST DONT ANSWER ME and 
> save me the time from reading your post all about how I dont read the 
> documentation.
> 
> Really, you guys are making me rethink the whole idea of using Typo3 at 
> all.  I guess Typo3 isn't as "perfect" as I thought it was when I 
> started using it. ;) I guess its impossible for any CMS to be perfect eh?
> 
> Now for a future notice, if you are sick of reading my posts, then dont 
> click on them and dont answer them.  I am interested in some help and 
> consultation with understanding Typo3 and to tell you the truth, THE 
> DOCUMENTATION DOES NOT HELP.  Getting started tutorial helped, but to as 
> far as I know, thats it.  I like getting real time help, and doing it 
> myself.  Now if you dont want to help, then please, don't.
> 
> Sorry if I sound a bit rude, but I have been just having enough with 
> this mailing list already.  I wonder if other noobs feel the same way.