[Typo3] Strategy for page templates... help needed.

[Amir Mualem]

Tyler Kraft wrote:
> Ok so I seemed to have started this flurry of fury - fine but these are 
> points that irritate me and probably many other users!
> 
> Yes this is a free mailing list. But so is the CMS and ALL the 
> extensions, AND ALL the FREE help from this FREE list.  So next time 
> maybe accept what experienced users tell you and go back and look again 
> at the documentation.
> 
> Amir, you are being rude, end of story. Nobody said you were stupid.  In 
> fact again go back and read because I said that the only thing us 
> experienced users have is time over you.  We have all read the 
> documentation so why shouldn't you?
> 
> As far as the documentation not helping - you were pointed out the 
> answer by me and several others, and you then seemed to have taken a 
> belligerent tone. To bad as well because I think you've probably just 
> created a sh*t load of animosity towards yourself, and alienated 
> yourself from help by a large contingency of the very valuable users and 
> the main individuals on this ML.
> 
> But the documentation being bad... then quite bitching and do something 
> about it! VOLUNTEER YOUR HELP AND TIME!!!  You get for FREE a top notch 
> CMS with a brilliant core development team devoted to improving it, and 
> expanding it, and a large amount of flexibility all backed by a group of 
> experienced users who normally offer their help (but like I said I think 
> you might have just lost that). So throw your hand in also, write 
> something that helps, even if its a list of the little things that you 
> think the documentation needs or needs to improve.  But then don't just 
> give it to somebody to do something with, start doing something with it. 
>  Volunteer with the doc group for a start.  Like I said you will be 
> reading a lot probably and getting to talk to the people about what is 
> going on in there documents, seeking clarity for the written word.  But 
> no wait I forgot you even stated that you don't want to read that much...
> 
> Francesco di Francia makes a good point (btw cool name!). Maybe, just 
> maybe though, its an unwise and foolish thing to be rude to the very 
> people who you ask and want help from.  Oliver wasn't being rude, he 
> offered you a good idea, check if there is a group near you.  BUT 
> instead of saying thanks where can I do that, you were asinine to him. 
> So now he has publicly stated here on this list that he will not help 
> you... seeing as he is a very prominent and useful person on this list 
> that was a dumb thing to do I think.  But hey again what do I know about 
>  this, most of my few questions seem to get answered here.
> 
> As far as your ability to research, what was hard about rereading the 
> section pointed out to you?  It clearly stated, and not only that area 
> but the introduction of the manual also, that you could do what you 
> asked.  So, with something this direct, how can I not question your 
> ability to research?  And if your not going to read the manual, then I 
> think maybe everyone should get a profit share of any revenue from your 
> site, as we are the ones who actually are doing the difficult part.  And 
> its not like we don't help either.  For god sake I'm the one who went 
> off topic and informed you not only of a flaw in your CSS but what was 
> wrong and what you needed to do to correct it. BTW your welcome.
> 
> As far as reading your posts - I read all the posts on several lists, 
> which is why every day more and more of this CMS makes more and more 
> sense.  It is the only way to learn anything.  If you went to university 
> would you purchase your grades or read and learn to answer the questions 
> and exams?  You HAVE to read lots of posts and documentation.  And its 
> not like it takes that much of your time either.  I mean really, I work 
> full time and go to university full time doing an Mechanical Engineering 
> Masters so its not as if I have lots of extra time to just sit around 
> and read these posts for fun.
> 
> So Amir, this isn't me being rude in fact I'm not even bothered about 
> this at all, but its just me being bold faced and brutally honest with 
> you.  If you want others here to figure out and hold your hand on what 
> are the most simple things, spend the money. As Michael said most of us 
> give back for all we get here.  If that's not an option, learn how to be 
> respectful and polite to the people who are trying to help you, or else 
> do what we have all done - READ, READ, READ.
> 
> AS Kasper says 'seeks help' but don't think we are about to hold your 
> hand. There is a reason for the mailing archives, How Tos, and FAQs! ITS 
> FOR USERS TO... wait wait here it comes... DO RESEARCH ON THINGS THEY 
> NEED TO LEARN TO DO!!!  A fascinating concept, really. Investigate it, 
> it just might change your opinion why we all get so annoyed by posts 
> like yours.  They make it hard to find information.
> 
> And with that I'm not helping you here any more I'm just pontificating. 
> You know what we think you need to do- read the documents (yes all of 
> them if need be!), user groups, archives, FAQs...
> 
> As my gran says 'Like it or lump it'
> 
> tk
> 
> Amir Mualem wrote:
> 
>> This is a free mailing list from what I know and there are no rules 
>> against asking a simple question.  If you dont want to answer it or if 
>> you want to just be cocky with me, then please just dont reply.  This 
>> is my way of finding answers. I am NOT going to go through 5+ 100-page 
>> manuals to find a simple answer to a question.  You tell me, maybe 
>> this is a lack of manuscript ORGANIZATION or what.  Please do not 
>> question my ability to research information because just as Amy said, 
>> it just does not pop up as quickly as you think.  No, I am not going 
>> to read 5, 6, 7 manuals just to learn how to do a fraction of the 
>> things.  I have 4 documents out, TSRef, TS By Example, Modern Template 
>> Building and Futuristic Template building.  This is my way of finding 
>> information, now if you dont want to help me out, then please JUST 
>> DONT ANSWER ME and save me the time from reading your post all about 
>> how I dont read the documentation.
>>
>> Really, you guys are making me rethink the whole idea of using Typo3 
>> at all.  I guess Typo3 isn't as "perfect" as I thought it was when I 
>> started using it. ;) I guess its impossible for any CMS to be perfect eh?
>>
>> Now for a future notice, if you are sick of reading my posts, then 
>> dont click on them and dont answer them.  I am interested in some help 
>> and consultation with understanding Typo3 and to tell you the truth, 
>> THE DOCUMENTATION DOES NOT HELP.  Getting started tutorial helped, but 
>> to as far as I know, thats it.  I like getting real time help, and 
>> doing it myself.  Now if you dont want to help, then please, don't.
>>
>> Sorry if I sound a bit rude, but I have been just having enough with 
>> this mailing list already.  I wonder if other noobs feel the same way.

I really dont have time for a petty argument.  The point of my argument 
is if you dont want to help me, THEN DONT, and stop posting in my 
thread.  Period.  End of discussion.  I personally dont want to hear it 
anymore.  I posted this PERFECTLY FINE QUESTION according to the rules 
and yet for the third time I am bombarded with an attitude problem from 
nearly 5 or more people.  If it hurts your eyes so bad to read my post, 
then please dont read it and leave the thread un-spammed as you guys 
have made it to allow someone who is willing to help and discuss the 
question with me to do it in peace.  I hear this is called trolling.

Now I am through with hearing it from you people "read the 
documentation". I will read it if I feel like reading it, which I have, 
but on other circumstances, I POSTED HERE and thats it.  I already 
posted so stop telling me that I have to read 5 manuals to get one damn 
answer.  Now if I told you that I still have not found an answer then it 
is OBVIOUS that I did not understnad the manual.  Do I have to explain 
this every time I post?

Now for the last time, if you are not going to help me, then stop 
posting in my thread and allow others who are willing to do so, to help 
me.  I do not need petty trolling and hostility from anyone right now. 
If you still have a problem, let's settle this outside of the mailing 
list and quit spamming the threads here.

Therefore when I post my next thread, if you simply hate me because of 
my "stupid questions" then dont click on it, PERIOD.

--
You wanted rude Tyler?  Well there it is.