[TYPO3-dev] new EXT:categorize to categorize everything

[Franz Koch]

Hi Dmitry,

> I know cal but I thought it is a WEC product.

yes, cal is some kind of sponsored by WEC - but they joined ECT.

> I saw lib/div but I did not like them. 

as lib/div is not final, you could have mentioned the point's you don't 
like.

> I remember that static_info_tables required div
> for unknown reason and it was very irritating to install div for
> static_info_tables, which was supposed only to provide static data :)

static_info_tables is providing some API for devs - this API required 
div for what reason ever.

>> The concept of the ECT is good and in my eyes a necessary part for the
>> T3 project. It only lacks of support from the association and other T3
>> teams - it's currently merely treated like a evil step mother by
>> everyone and I seem to be the lonely cowboy getting tired by fighting
>> for it over and over again.
> 
> It is good, yes. But if developer still wants to developm on his
> own, I do not see a problem. The more alternatives - the more
> choices. Best wins.

The problem I see is, that the TER is getting flood by dozens of 
extension for the same purpose (take gallerys for example), every single 
one only covering 40 or 60% of the most needed tasks but no one that 
covers at least 90% or would be extendable by addon extensions. So there 
will always be more and more added and at some point you simply don't 
know which one to use for your current needs - then you start coding 
your own and probably add this one again (and so forth). Question is - 
do we really need f.e. 30 galleries? I'd prefer having only 1 gallery 
that I have to cope with.

>> how can the ECT work when no active DEVs are joining it and coordinating
>> their extensions? As much as I understand the ECT it's not primary a
> 
> I do not have the answer to the question. Probably developers do not
> see real benefits of joining? For would be benefits for a developer
> like me, for example?

There might not be much benefits for you, developing a extension under 
the cover of ECT besides of inspirations and joined forces - but 
benefits for the community and the Typo3 project, having a solid base of 
maintained "state-of-the-art-extensions" you can work with.

>> actively developing team - but a team coordinating development, so that
>> devs know "hey, there is already a extension in progress for the purpose
>> I need, so I don't need to start from scratch and can join forces". But
>> if nobody is talking to them about their planned extensions, the ECT
>> can't support them. Of course the "leaders" are also devs, but their
>> main task is coordination. So all devs should join the ECT newsgroup,
>> write about their planned extension, probably find some other interested
>> party and discuss the concept and aim of the extension with them to get
>> a most usable result.
> 
> Well, it works well in theory. In practice we even cannot agree in
> the core team about patches. One team member proposes a patch and
> others start shouting that variable or class should be named
> differently and as a result patch does not come into core at all.
> Why would developer want that for his extensions? I'd easier to
> develop individually than to agree with numerous people on small
> irritating details.

I have no answer for that - this is a general problem when working in a 
team. But normally there is a team leader making the final decision in 
such cases.

> If Kasper started to consult everyone about implementing features,
> we would never had TYPO3.

If Kasper didn't have a vision we wouldn't have TYPO3 either :)

> Do not misunderstand me. I think ECT is a good idea but I think it
> is hard to make it real when there so many developers, working so
> independently, with so different background, style, experience and
> geography...

I know that drawbacks - but it's not said that your ECT extension will 
be based on a group of devs - it could still be only you as main 
developer of the extension. ECT is in first place coordinating new 
extensions, connecting devs with the same vision and is taking care of 
that ECT driven extensions will stay maintained. It's some kind of 
shepherd of the TER. So there is nothing to loose.

If Georg f.e. would have announced his extension in the ECT group, we 
would have informed him about the extension of Mads, could have answered 
questions about the current status and the goal of that extension and 
Georg might have been able to takeover the extension and finish it. So, 
one extension less in TER, but a existing one improved and finished for 
the "greater good".

>> As I wrote above - I'm getting tired on fighting for better extensions
>> and a much cleaner TER. I better drink a BEER3 and put my focus on v5 to
>> get freely extendable packages by default ;)
> 
> I do not think v5 will be any different.

Well I think so. One big benefit is the MVC pattern, Widgets and BEER3 
(with the so called viewHelpers), which allow you to extend given views 
in ways you would not have been able to in v4. And I'm currently 
spreading my ideas in terms of flexibility with the devs of v5 ;)

-- 
kind regards,
Franz Koch