[TYPO3-dev] relaease plans for typoe 4.2?

[JoH asenau]

>> Besides "stdWrap" and "data" (aka getText), "if" is certainly
>> something that has to be and will be improved. *
>>
>> What I am insisting on is that TS is a declarative not a procedural
>> language. I wouldn't change that, but you do.
>
> It doesn't matter what TS is. Nobody uses it except Typo3 community
> and it is HARD to learn.

Why? - I came from a designer's background when I started with TYPO3 a few
years ago. My programming skills where HTML, CSS and JavaScript only. I had
never used a real programming language before and hardly knew any PHP.

So the reason for my decision for TYPO3 was TypoScript.
Because it's some kind of a shorthand for PHP. (You can trigger a whole
bunch of PHP functions with just a few lines of TypoScript) _and_ because
it's so easy to learn.

> You are answering to my question like a programmer. I am talking
> about wider perspective, not flame war TS vs. PHP. I understand you
> wouldn't change TS, because you've learnt it. How long did it take?
> 2-3 years?

It took me just a few days to get used to the basics and another few weeks
to work out the details and play around with more complex stuff like nested
cObjects and recursive use of stdWrap properties. And IMHO most of the
newbies that are not coming from a programming background could more easily
learn how to use TS configuration parameters than a real programming
language with all it's functions. Compare the size of TSref to that of the
PHP manual and you will recognize the difference.

Did you ever try to setup something like a complex HMENU structure with
optionSplit and lots of different wraps with PHP only? Do you really think
it's easier for a newbie to learn how to write those few hundred lines of
PHP code instead of just 20 or 30 lines of TypoScript that can be easily
changed on a per page base using extension templates with just one
additional line?

> I didn't receive any answer to my previous questions? You keep
> avoiding them. Let me hear the real arguments, not "I wouldn't change
> that, but you do".
>
> Do we have the same goal: to improve user base and number of
> installations?

If this is your major goal maybe TYPO3 is not the right tool to reach it.
My goal is a bit different since IMHO the quality of a professional system
has nothing to do with the number of people using it. My goal is to improve
a system that introduced a lot of helpful things that simply don't exist in
other content management frameworks.
One of these things is TypoScript and IMHO taking it to the next (2.0) level
is a very good idea. Replacing it with pure PHP, XML or whatever you might
prefer will remove one of the major USPs for TYPO3.

> Your insisting on tools that have long learning curve
> doesn't help much.

They don't have a long learning curve if you just stop avoiding them and try
to understand the advantages they might give you. And BTW, if you really
hate them that much, you are not forced to use them.
I guess something like

page = PAGE
page {
    10 = USER
    10.userFunc = myClass->myFunction
}

will not have such a high learning curve and you can completely replace the
rendering functionality by your own PHP code very easily this way.

> Obviously it is hard to influence in anything here, because you
> simply don't want to have broader perspective. AFAIR even Dmitry
> complained how you picked unproven Java Content Repository on your
> own.

My broader perspective is: TS is one of the good things TYPO3 has to offer
and if we will be able to remove the inconsistencies and give the naming
scheme an overhaul (like it is currently done with class and function names
for TYPO3 5.0) it could be something other systems could use as well.

So if you are one of the people complaining about the long lurning curve,
maybe you could tell us what your major problems are and maybe this will
influence the new look and feel of TypoScript 2.0 to make it even easier to
learn than it is now.

Could this be a deal?

Joey

-- 
Wenn man keine Ahnung hat: Einfach mal Fresse halten!
(If you have no clues: simply shut your gob sometimes!)
Dieter Nuhr, German comedian
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