[TYPO3-dev] set_no_cache is bad. What's next?

[Steffen Kamper]

"Michael Stucki" <michael at typo3.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:mailman.1.1175333914.17070.typo3-dev at lists.netfielders.de...
> Hi Elmar,
>
>>> I disagree! Although tslib_pibase might be pretty oldschool, this 
>>> doesn't
>>> mean that proper caching is not possible while using it. But I agree 
>>> that
>>
>> For whom is it possible to do proper caching with it? Maybe for me after
>> years of pain.
>>
>> Please open your next TYPO3 installation check the extension directory
>> recursively:
>>
>> grep -Ril no_cache *
>
> I'm aware of that. But this not a problem inside tslib_pibase, it's rather
> caused by the documentation of it. Additionally, some bad default settings
> in the kickstart add even more problems on top of that.
>
>> You will quickly find out that even many experienced developers still 
>> have
>> problems with proper caching. Do you expect the average programmer will
>> ever be able to do proper caching with tslib_pibase?
>
> If we tell him why, then yes.
>
>> When I suggested improvements to the responsible persons the answer was
>> meaningful silence instead of taking up my thoughts and find out how it
>> could be done. I am tired now of this way. It was practically impossible
>> to get tslib_pibase improved. So the only consequence it to replace it.
>> Masi is fully right in this.
>
> We're once again at the subject of compatibility. I agree completely that
> tslib_pibase should be replaced with something better, and apparently you
> are already doing that.
>
> But meanwhile, do not expect that many extensions will be adapted to this
> framework within a recent amount of time. Extension authors will hopefully
> fix a few lines, but most of them will probably never switch their whole
> plugin to a new architecture.
>
> In 3 or 4 years, after the new framework may be ready and stable, and the
> kickstarter has been adapted for it, we may be happy that the problems are
> solved. But this doesn't solve these problems _now_!
>
> So, what I want is to solve as much as we can out of these problems with 
> the
> existing resources. We just advice people how they can easily _identify_
> caching problems and _fix_ them with minimal efforts.
>
> A good start would be the article which you wrote and published here some
> time ago:
> http://t3flyers.wordpress.com/2006/09/11/a-quick-guide-to-correct-caching-with-pi_base/
>
> Maybe it could be integrated easily into this one?
> http://typo3.org/development/articles/the-mysteries-of-chash/
>
> (There are some things which are still missing in both of them, though. 
> But
> it would be a good start at least.)
>
> This should not only help extension owners, but also customers of such an
> extension (companies who need to fix performance problems on their
> customers websites), because they can easily localise these problems.
>
> Bottomline: We don't need to change tslib_pibase for fixing the caching
> problems because most of this functionality is already there.
>
> - michael
> -- 
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Hi Michael,

I'm on the way to manage that the article from Elmar will be published on 
typo3.org. That's a good beginning.
Nethertheless the discussion of proper cashing is an important one and we 
should go on with it, beside we can think about how we can help best the 
developers prevent cashe pitfalls.
- Replacing / reengineering existing function in pi_base
- better documentation, maybe a demonstration extension
- correct kickstarter code

anything else ?

vg  Steffen