[TYPO3-hci] amount and frequency of changes in BE

[Silke Arend]

Hi Tolleiv and Steffen,

Thank you for the responses. What I have written concerns not only the 
new version 4.5, but updates in general, and especially TYPO3 v4.6 and 
other new versions to come, as I have been watching the mentioned 
confusing rearrangements of fields and icons already in previous versions.

And yes, we could adjust the backend. But it is not the purpose of 
usability improvements that agency have to undo them for the sake of 
their customers.

I was just wondering why the changes in MS Office, which are clearly a 
negative example, are mentioned to defend the changes in the backend. Of 
course, I also do favour improvements of usability, but this primarily 
means for me no "cosmetic" changes like rearranging fields, but to 
enable fast and efficient working. Instead, even when using the browser 
firefox with a fast internet access (DSL 16000), loading of each new 
page in the list modul for example is definitely slower that it used to 
be in 4.4 or 4.1. Another example: I still get this pop-up asking me if 
I want to stay logged-in but not accept this choice.

You are right in saying "It doesn't make sense to keep bad things longer 
than necessarily needed", and there are also some good points about 4.5 
usability changes, as for example the text in content elements is now 
put together with the header again. To make my point clearer I will add 
some examples of where I see changes for the worse or new or remaining 
inconsistencies.

Sorry, that inevitably gets quite long:

- The rearrangement of the context menu in the pagetree: new, cut, copy 
and delete are now grouped as "page actions", show, edit, info, disable 
and history not, but they concern page actions as well.

- At the same time "new" and the others that force the user to wait for 
a second level to appear are at least as often used as "info", which is 
still on the first level. Why not leave them where they used to be, when 
accessing them was faster still?

- In page properties, the fields "Hide in menu" and "Page disable" have 
been removed from the tab "General". Isn't it one of the most general 
points if a user can see a page or not?

- In content elements, the fields for positioning images and image size 
have been put to the tab "Appearance", although there is still a tab 
only for images: I don't understand why these fields have been separated 
from the image field itself. Whenever I insert an image, I also have to 
decide on its position and size. That has nothing to do with the 
appearance of the content element in general, at least not more than the 
alignment of the header (which is to be found on "General").

- Why is the column in which a content element is placed still a 
"general" issue and therefore the field column still placed in the tab 
"General" while fields like "Indentation and Frames" or "Top Margin" are 
now a question of "Appearance"?

- TYPO3 boasts being an enterprise CMS. Why do we need so many 
explanations in labels - as if it were designed for occassional users 
and newbees, then? For example, the field "Alternative Labels" gives now 
the explanation "one per line" - an information every editor knows if he 
has looked up the context sensitive help once. Longer labels clutter the 
forms in my eyes. The old approach (until 4.2) to allow the editor to 
choose "Show field descriptions" gave room for even longer description 
for inexpierenced users and a "cleaner" look for power users. Who 
benefits from the new "one size fits all" approach here?

These are only a few points that show where things - in my eyes - got 
worse or in some cases changes are just annoying without having the 
benefit of an improvement.

But maybe I, and the users I talked to, are the only ones struggling 
with this?

Enjoy your weekend!

Silke


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [TYPO3-hci] amount and frequency of changes in BE
Von: Steffen Gebert <steffen at steffen-gebert.de>
An: typo3-team-hci at lists.typo3.org
Datum: 03.02.11 12:10
> Hi Silke,
>
>> I have to disagree. The success of TYPO3 which we saw in the past won't
>> make it to the future without change. And especially usability was one
>> of the weakest points of TYPO3.
>
> Yes, I also disagree, although some of your points are valid, of course.
>
> Changes are bad for creatures of habit and power users. And for 
> documentation - even our own!
>
> Many people think of TYPO3 as the "slowly evolving usability skunk" - 
> and, of course, there are many issues and we try to rule some out with 
> each release (without introducing new ones.. mostly..).
>
> I replied to one of my "power editors" an hour ago, which also 
> complained about changes. But that's how it is with software updates. 
> Sometimes there are more "improvements" (Office 2003 -> 2007), 
> sometimes there are fewer (2007 -> 2010).
> Dependent on how you are used to old interfaces, you will call it 
> improvement or disimprovement.
>
> Advantage with TYPO3: You can rearrange and rename all the fields to 
> stay with the alignment of 4.4.
>
> Kind regards
> Steffen
>