[TYPO3-ect] Improving communication between ECT and Core team (was: Re: Re: [TYPO3-core] Wishlist from ECT)

[Michael Stucki]

Hi Elmar,

I just read some parts of this discussion and would like to add some
comments about it.

I wonder why your are complaining in this list that the communication with
the core team does not work, waiting until someone accidentially finds this
message and gets a chance to start improving this.

Both Core Team and ECT belong to the R&D committee, which you are a member
of. I wonder why you didn't post this information there or at least send it
to me directly? (Thanks to Joerg Schoppet who did so - unfortunately he
didn't respond to my comments yet.)

Anyway, here's my try to get back to a common track:

Note: Actually I didn't follow the original typo3/contrib/ discussion at
all, and I don't want to start it over right now. I just would like to get
some input about how you think we can improve communication between those
teams in general.


First of all, I think that there should not have been any discussion about
the typo3/contrib/ suggestion (and stuff like this) on the core team list.
My original idea of this list was pretty simple: Provide a place for
submitting patches, and for getting them reviewed. Discussions should be
kept short, and only relating to the proposed code changes. This also
explains why the list is closed: Only people who can actually commit
something are able to propose their changes.


Now when it comes to stuff that affects the architecture of TYPO3 (e.g. this
contrib directory, or the past AJAX framework decision) this might be fine
in some cases as well. However, since there were complaints coming from
this team, we should find a better way to discuss this and make a decision.

Although the ECT seems to be a better (because public) place for discussions
like this, it also scares me to support this idea. Looking at the length
and style of some discussions held in here, I really doubt if people are
willing to spend so much time and efforts for participating in such a
discussion. Why should many people participate in a discussion, when it
would have been easy for a working group to compile all information
(including pros and cons) into a single document.

My suggestion is that next time we are in such a situation, someone (we'll
need a moderator for this) has to start a Wiki document, which can be
announced on dev, core and ect lists. We will wait two weeks while everyone
can post his thoughts and comments, explain why XY is better than XZ, etc.

Finally, a vote will be organised by the moderator, directly followed by the
implementation in TYPO3core.

(Prerequisite: If it is about code changes, then these changes must be
available as a patch. Otherwise it appears logical to me that those who
implement it can also decide how they want to do it...)


So, what dou you think about that?

- michael

Elmar Hinz wrote:
> the request was not an empty directory, but rather an include path for
> PEAR that extension developers can rely on. Maybe that was a little
> unclear. But if core members would read this list, that would know this.
> Do you really think extension developers that simple-minded to request an
> empty directory without any deeper motivation.
> 
> As we from ECT can't technically write on the core list, it is the logical
> consequence that the members of the core list need to inform themself on
> the ECT list. They also have the technical possibility to write on this
> list and ask for informations before making harum scarum decisions, due to
> lack of informations and they know they should do so.
> 
> If the core list is a closed list, this is to protect the core team
> from all those people who only do feature requests without contributing
> anything. That is OK so far. The danger with this is, that it encourages
> encapsulation and ignorance. If a mentality is creeping up that leads to
> this kind of ignorance towards requests of other active members of the
> community it is time to rant.

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