[TYPO3-ect] AJAX: serverside logic vs. clientside logic

[Elmar Hinz]

R. van Twisk wrote:
> 
> Take typo3 for example, the be MUST have cookies and JS on, otherwise it
> will break.
> 

That JS must be on has been a concession in times when ajax was not
available and accessibility was to expensive to achieve. Today the
conditions have changed. To make the same concession today would be a
clear failure. TYPO3 BE is not a toy.

We are not allowed to exclude handicaped people from using it, if that
is possible at a fair price.

> I don't see what your point is here....
> 
> Prototype is not a library that will do form validation, it can help GET
> values from elements,
> it can help to to get ALL form values and send it through ajax to a
> server for server side validation.
> 

So it belongs into the set of server side logic AJAX for this field,
wich is fine.

>> 3.) Accessibility:
>>
> I don't think you understand the prototype library well....
> 
> Also xajax will break a accessible site when you use ajax calls to get
> additional data from the server.

xajax breaks accessibility. But the central point is, that you can use
it easily/typically in a programming style, where you can switch it off,
and your site keeps working for screenreaders.

> Also I have seen that xajax user innerHTML which is depriciated.

I didn't know this. But there are at least 16 alternative functions to
deliver the content.

 > Again,
> prototype and xajax need to live NEXT to each other there are NOT
> replacements.

My posting wasn't about protoype and xajax. It's about serveside and
clientside logic. If you can use prototype as fully with the serverside
style like xajax it's O.K.

Yesterday people wrote about iterators in prototype, wich use is
definitly not serverside logic and should be avoided.

> 
> Listen I did this:
> 
> I turned off javascript and tried this example :
> http://www.xajaxproject.org/examples/multiply/multiply.php
> Guess what, it didn't work....
> 

Do you think typo3.org is the best practice example for the usage typo3. :-)

Whole http://www.xajaxproject.org/ doesn't function, if you turn off
javascript. It's rather a worse practice example.

> a website NEEDS to be accessible without JS, no matter what library you
> use.

Make this a fix entry on top of the borad!

> xajax can't fade elements nicely, iterate over arrays, get values from

Is iterating over arrays not clientside logic? I am lucky xajax can't do
it.

That's the point where double programming on the server and the client
side would start. If you discover yourself using it, it is most likely
that you are doing something completly superflous in that moment. Maybe
you just even break accessibility.

> We just can't seem to convince you that prototype and xajax needs to
> live along side each other,
> not fight against each other. 

Stating that, you haven't read my other postings. :-)

Regards

Elmar