[TYPO3-ttnews] Switch to news2

[Jordan van Bergen]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for this nice answer. This is how we all should look at it. 

You always know how to answer a delicate question from a TYPO3 user.
Thanks for this. 

But there is also a side note. The people behind TYPO3 don't mind the
CMS system to be not 'simple and easy'. 

You even say: it never will be a 'simple and easy' system

Why is that? 

Shouldn't it be important for a CMS system to be as simple and easy as
possible? 

As everyone knows TYPO3 is flexible and a great CMS but far from
simple and easy. I think the core developers should do everything they
can to make TYPO3 v5 more simple and easy compared to its predecessor
TYPO3 v4. This is the first thing I will look at when TYPO3 v5
arrives. 

If TYPO3 won't become more simple and easierto use  in future I think
even the bigger companies that are using TYPO3 now will look beyond
TYPO3. Not just a simple guy like me that has a nice private website
and some other websites. I really think the bigger companies will look
beyond TYPO3. I know that one of the bigger companies I work for is
already looking for alternatives. 

Don't forget "the cloud". New and established CMS systems will come to
the cloud with a click of a button shortly (< 2 years). TYPO3 should
think about this also. If it's not simple and easy how will it ever
work in the cloud? People are used to cloud solutions as plain simple
and easy. Look at dropbox for example..... If those companies suddenly
have to start learning things like TS they will most likely go on to
the next CMS in the cloud solution that does the job with a click of
the mouse. More and more solutions are based on 'simple and easy' to
use. Don't forget this please.

Regards
Jordan

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:52:02 +0200, ben van 't ende
<ben.vantende at typo3.org> wrote:

>Dear Jordan,
>
>There is not much we as TYPO3 Association can do on how extension builders
>behave. tt_news is still a very usable and flexible system. Georg's extension
>looks very promising. Let's see what we can do about migration. Your example of
>clients leaving might be true for you, but is definitely not exemplary for the
>whole TYPO3 eco-system. I know many small and big companies that have very
>satisfied customers and make a lot of money with TYPO3.
>
>It is not bad to broaden your horizon. TYPO3 was and never will be a 'simple and
>easy' system. You have got to use the right tool for your project. For that
>matter Drupal, Joomla and Wordpress are all called a CMS, but serve very
>different purposes.
>
>gRTz
>
>ben
>
>
>
>
>
>On 18/09/11 15:10, Jordan van Bergen wrote:
>> +1 for Robert 
>> 
>> but reading this thread I know now:
>> 
>> 1. news is here to stay and tt_news is GONE !
>> 
>> 2. No import script to get all the news from tt_news to news. BAD. You
>> have to sponsor is the anwser. If news is going or willing to be the
>> new news extenision it should at least have the import function from
>> tt_news otherwise news could turn out to be a wannabe news extension
>> as everyone is going to stick to tt_news because they can't
>> export/import them in the new news extension.
>> 
>> About sponsoring:
>> 
>> * I am a user that has sponsored in the past 3.000+ euro's to TYPO3
>> extensions. 
>> 
>> I have sponsored the news_calendar, multishop, ideal payment method in
>> tt_product extensions etc. 
>> 
>> Another thing to say is that I have sponsored 1.000 euro to an iDEAL
>> payment method in tt_product by netcreators which I didn't need
>> myself. It was a contribution to TYPO3 and an online shop solution.
>> The first user wanting to use this payment method (after 2 years) had
>> to pay another 2.000 euro as the code was outdated he was told. So
>> first 1.000 euro for the whole implementation and then 2.000 to adapt
>> it? Strange. The guy decided to not use tt_product because of this and
>> left TYPO3.
>> 
>> So my 2 cents about sponsoring. I won't sponsor any eurocent into
>> extensions anymore as the money goes into extension you can't trust
>> will last en keep on functioning in future. 
>> 
>> Still I will use TYPO3 but as said I'm broadening my horizon. In the
>> last 2 years 5 customers left because of TYPO3. They switched to
>> Joomla, Drupal and Wordpress. So they are some of the people
>> responsible for the reduction in market share for TYPO3 in the CMS
>> "business". I still don't use one of them but I will see what's going
>> to happen with TYPO3 as the whole discussion about the news extension
>> is typical. 
>> 
>> The TYPO3 users are faced with a dilemma. Users shouldn't have to
>> think about dilemma's but how to use the CMS system in a simple and
>> easy way. Nothing is easy anymore because of the news extension
>> dilemma / troubles.
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> Jordan
>> 
>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 13:39:00 +0200, Robert Wildling
>> <robertwildling at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> A topic that obviousely is of more people's interest! I'd like to add my 
>>> 2 cents here since I already had some discussion in the past without 
>>> having any impact.
>>>
>>> Am 17.09.11 12:25, schrieb Jigal van Hemert:
>>>
>>>>> The people behind TYPO3 are making some big mistakes if you ask me:
>>>>
>>>> Since TYPO3 is a community product, "the people behind TYPO3" is also you!
>>>
>>>
>>> This discussion is characterized by the very standard arguments coming 
>>>from the core developers. And "The People behing TYPO3 is also you" is 
>>> exactely one of them.
>>>
>>> Not all people behing TYPO3 are programmers - actually I assume only a 
>>> small percentage is. But it is those people - the users - who make TYPO3 
>>> a wide spread and therefore famous CMS. Which is also a curse, because - 
>>> and this is really to be realized! - TYPO3 is a standard CMS that many 
>>> firms, agency etc demand when it comes to gathering offers for their web 
>>> presence. "It has to be TYPO3". (Why not Drupal?)
>>>
>>> So meanwhile as a web developer (in Europe at least) there is _no way_ 
>>> around TYPO3, if one wants to stay in business - whether you like TYPO3 
>>> or not, you _need to know it_!
>>>
>>> The power of decision influence that TYPO3 has on the marked has to be 
>>> reflected when it comes to the discussion that it is a free CMS. Shall 
>>> everybody donate to TYPO3 so that the features that are really necessary 
>>> will one day get implemented? I personally won't, because developers do 
>>> their thing and seem to absolutely no be willing to implement the 
>>> features that so many people need who made it famous - and who are now 
>>> depended on TYPO3.
>>>
>>> It is about time that the core developers start to rethink some facts:
>>>
>>>>> 1. No core news extension but an addon extension. Every big open
>>>>> source CMS has a news module in the core of the basic installed CMS
>>>>> system
>>>>
>>>> The Core Team simply doesn't have the man power available to maintain a
>>>> lot of extensions. Every user of TYPO3 has a different set of "must
>>>> have" extensions. It's simply impossible to maintain them all inside the
>>>> core.
>>>
>>>
>>> Is is nothing else but the truth that every other major CMS has a news 
>>> module. The - again - often read "excuse" that "the core team does not 
>>> have the man power" ... is lame and boring. Why do you have the man 
>>> power for a workspace module? Or a link validator? Or the new Extension 
>>> manager? Or all those Content Elements, where one has a subheader, the 
>>> other one not - and excluding it just leads to bugs and more work for 
>>> you developers? (That was a recent discussion here, maybe you remember...)
>>>
>>> No doubt - those are fancy and shiny extensions and all those 
>>> configuration possibilities - it is soooo feature rich that TYPO3 can't 
>>> be anything else but an _Enterprise_ CMS. And the programming skills are 
>>> admirable! Actually so admirable that I wonder what is so difficult with 
>>> a basic news system? Extend the date functionalies, integrate a category 
>>> system, maybe a new menu type for archive menues - and voila!
>>>
>>> This is what I dare to say - please proof me wrong:
>>>
>>> - A news system is needed by way more people than a workspace / link 
>>> validator and other stuff
>>>
>>> - A news system actually WAS ORIGINALLY SHIPPED with TYPO3 when Kaspar 
>>> brought it to the market. It was maybe not very rich of features as was 
>>> tt_news, but actually I do not understand why that respective news 
>>> module wasn't developed any further. Please explain, core team.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> 2. The battle for the best extension per solution. Someone should say:
>>>>> this is the news extension we support and the rest can do what ever
>>>>> they want but you are on your own. We only support 1 news extension.
>>>>
>>>> TYPO3 / the Core Team doesn't support any of these extensions. Of course
>>>> extension developers get as much help as possible with maintaining their
>>>> extensions, but anything that is in the TER is simply not part of the
>>>> TYPO3 core.
>>>
>>> Well - make news a core EXT again! It is just about time I'd say!
>>>
>>> The problem with all that discussion here is that we as users won't have 
>>> any chance either way, because the core team cooks its own soup - a vey 
>>> good soup, but not one for every day hunger. The users can bring in one 
>>> argument after the other, the other CMSs can evolve further and further 
>>> - TYPO3 just won't jump on the train.
>>>
>>> And all I hear as a user is either the excuses from above (no man power, 
>>> no time, no use, it is an ext.. etc...) or - and this didn't comeup yet 
>>> -: don't forget: Typo3 is actually a _framework_, not a CMS...
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, actually, I think it is too late to incorporate a news 
>>> feature into the core. TYPO3 became too complex and - talking about 
>>> tt_news spaghetti code - how well is TYPO3 core code, if it is sooo 
>>> difficult and / or time consuming to implement a news feature? Putting 
>>> all the weight on Rupi who did a great job with tt_news does not seem 
>>> fair to me at all!!! There must be reason why he left off from TYPO3...
>>>
>>> Again - core team, beloved core team: it is really time to rethink!!! 
>>> You do get lost in all your fancy configuration stuff and additional 
>>> features that you completely lost the view for the things that are needed!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Robert