[TYPO3-english] inspiring people to share your location

[Georg Ringer]

Good morning,

oh Andreas, Andreas, Andreas... I will start commenting your post with 
the last thing you said:

 > I really don't like this German Nationalism. It is like poison for an 
really
 > open and a worldwide integrating OpenSource community. I really feel 
sorry
 > for that!

OpenStreetMap is the only map source which *is* OpenSource and which 
exists for reasons like TYPO3 exists. This are the only sources you are 
allowed to use in your books and other information without any problem 
cause you only need to add the copyright. This is forbidden with Google 
Maps and there is many things you need to know if you are not allowed to 
use Google Maps.


> Very easy to answer, as we would need to insert all other streets and much
> more here in South East Asia!

OSM startet exactly there, with *nothing*. You can also use Google Maps 
as overlay and start creating the streets with that. Or you just buy a 
tool which saves the locations you are and you drive around and you are 
done!

 > The other
> thing is that it doesn't make really sense to reinvent wheels. Google Maps
> are used also by most of our customers.

It makes sense because it is Open Source!

> Another point I already wrote about in 1989 in my Thesis is the Map in our
> Head (Mind). People in our region, especially in our rural regions orient on
> things you can't find on a map, but which you can find on a satellite
> picture. It is much easier for them to remember things when they have a look
> to a satellite picture than to a map.

Oh come on... why do they use such things? Because they need to because 
maps are not accurate enough! You can add every information to an OSM 
map which is important!

Of course a map is very useful and don't tell me you haven't thought 
that when you moved there (wtf how should I know what is in their 
head...) it is all about sharing information


> i.e. in Thailand we orient oft on 7/11 or on gasoline stations but not on
> road names. We have a look to small forests or shop-houses after which you
> need to turn somewhere to the right or left. There are dirt roads leading to
> other normal roads which you need to take as a part of the road is missing
> or you need to cross a bridge over a small creek which are often build
> already in the middle of the jungle but the connecting roads are still dirt
> roads.

so you say you can't save a dirty road on OSM? really? there are even 
hiking trails on it and it makes sense! Every geographical issue should 
be added because it doesn't cost any space. No reason to create a hiking 
map, a biking map and a map for some other groups. But *Everything* into 
it and you are still able to get what you need.

> On a satellite picture you can figure this out very easy, especially in the
> combined view of Map and Satellite Picture. 

Really? So how often you get updates of you area via satellite? I guess 
the roads change more often, also the houses where you need to turn left 
and right! So satellite images are always old and never new and they 
cost much. But of course they are nice - true! But they are *always* 
outdated because they are just like a Britannica - the knowledge from a 
specific date and it won't change until it is done completly new! OSM is 
like wikipedia and when a road changes or also changes from dirty to 
asphalt - all you need to do is change that and it will be online some 
days afterwards!

> Also the Terrain view often
> helps. All of this isn't existing in OSM and as the name already says it is
> a "STREET" Map - but we often have NO STREETS! 

as already said, every trail and every mystery walk can be added. Also 
hiking trails are added

> Perhaps you should come here
> and have a look by yourself to understand what our situation is in South
> East Asia or also in Africa or even India, where we have lots and lots of
> OpenSource Developers - but have a look to OSM - can you find them - NO!

And I guess it would be very very cool, having a *STREET* map on your 
navigation tool which you can trust because it is updated and extended 
by locals and all who live there.


> Please show me an example in a third world country or here in South East
> Asia and we will check it out and perhaps can learn out of it! We are not a
> big city where you get much more information from OSM.

I hope I can give you something later


> Not because something is called OpenSource or OPEN it needs to be better
> than another FREE Solution like Google Maps.

as already said - it is! because it is free and you are allowed to use 
it. I know, many got a legal problem in Asia cause you copy what is not 
allowed too .. but that is not very good

> Instead of doubling the
> workload and constructing nothing more than a doublicate of an already free
> solution it would be much better to construct a OSM layer you could place on
> Top of a Google Map with really special information you can't find in a
> google Map. 

no because the information needs to be added *directly* to the map so 
everyone got it

> We have one company here in Phuket which is doing exactly this.
> They construct layers which can be used on Google Maps and charge customers
> for it! 

ah now we get there... it is about money.

> Also a friend in Australia is doing something similar for bigger
> companies and News Agencies which want to map things/articles and much more.
> All of them have the freely available Google Maps and Google Earth as a base
> but construct layers on top of it.

and their business will all stop when OSM hits a level of details which 
will just make them not useful anymore.

YOu can also use the source in your own Map Server, but if Google wants 
to begin to charge, damn.... ;)


> What about using Google Map as a base and let the user choose if he would
> like to use OSM or the Google StreetMap to be shown on top of the satellite
> picture.

it is all about open source and not open source

> If the OSM Map is accurate in Geocoding this should not be such a
> hazzle! 

Geocoding has not really something todo with OSM

Georg