[TYPO3-dev] FLOW3 / TYPO3 5.0

[Irene Höppner]

Am 27.04.2010, 16:08 Uhr, schrieb Dmitry Dulepov  
<dmitry.dulepov at gmail.com>:

> Hi!
>
> Irene Höppner wrote:
>> Isn't it funny, that ppl ask for a plan about something completly new in
>> that early state? Everybody who just thinks a little bit (not "wishes"
>> but "thinks" - in the meaning of cogitation) would have known how
>> senseless this question was at that time.
>
> Irene, v5 team told at t3dd06 that they expect to get v5 out in one year  
> :)
> You were not there I guess.
No, I wasn't there. But afaik that time they still believed they could do  
it with refactoring of the TYPO3v4-code. Trying that out they realized  
that this is impossible or would imply too much compromises between  
stability, downwards compatibility and

>
> The question is always valid. When M$ says about Windows Vista, they say
> WHEN they plan it. When Apple says about iPad, they tell WHEN it will be
> out. Nothing goes without time estimates. You simply can't tell "We will
> have a new shiny gadget". Everybody will ask "When?".

Yes, Windows 7 was released in time because the project manager simply  
skipped lots of features and didn't talk about what features would be  
included before it was finished. Good job. Really. :-)
Well, you can find a realease (nearly) every month since last year on  
flow3.org. Maybe the difference ist, that you can have a look, what  
features are planned for the next release looking at the issues in forge.
>
> My post with that quote was romantic and nostalgic, it was not against
> FLOW3 in any way.

Well, cool :-). Pretty cool, because it would be great to have a  
perfectionist like you in the FLOW3-project sometimes!

> What bothers me is that you completely refuse to
> understand that time limits always exist. Don't you tell your clients  
> when
> you finish projects? How do you work without having any time constraints?
>
hehe... I know that I started some very provocative discussion here. It  
feels like if in 2008 I would have said that the car as status symbol  
would become far less important within a few years ;-) or social media  
would reduce the disenchantment with politics.

Ok... ppl believe that productivity increases, if you give ppl more money.  
That's correct for tasks that do not need to much cogitation and  
creativity. Once you need cogitation or creativity it's wrong (watch the  
video). Productivity decreases. The problem is pressure. In case of  
bonuses the pressure is more subtle then in case of time pressure. It's  
about intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Nevertheless bonuses are used  
(we do as well). This is a question of widespread "believe" (because  
everybody believes it and we don't have a good alternative) that we can  
find pretty often in history.
One reason probably is, that is much more difficult to find reasonable and  
countable and understandable goals that are not about a deadline in many  
cases. Another problem is to get the goals of the customer matched to the  
goals of the developers.

Yes, sure do we working with time constraints. It's a pity, but I can't  
change the things ppl believe in, and I can't teach all customers in  
finding alternative usefull goals. They wouldn't even understand the idea  
because they "believe" something different.

All this is not that much about FLOW3. It's a complete independent topic.

But I believe that with FLOW3 we can do it better then the mainstream. We  
have a very high intrinsic motivation here. So we have the chance to get a  
great product. Trying to put too much extrinsic motivation on top of it,  
is a risk... imho... not what the mainstream thinks, I know :-).

I guess I'm waiting harder then most of you for a stable release, because  
I really want to make projects with FLOW3 and - like you - I don't have  
enough time to dig into the development the way I would like to.  
Nevertheless I personally believe it's counterproductive to make  
time-pressure.

Greets,
Irene