[TYPO3-dev] relaease plans for typoe 4.2?

[Christopher Torgalson]

Hi,

On 5/7/07, John Angel <johnange at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hm, but it's you who wants to shift to a fully blown programming
> > language which is IMHO harder to learn than e few configuration options.
>
> The concept is the same, we still need configuration options.
>
> E.g. $object->stdWrap can work exactly just it was, the idea is just to make
> things more flexible and easier. If I want to code in PHP, I should do it
> directly in CMS, wherever I want.
>
> I want to be able to output HTML by simply using:
>
> $page->output = "Hello world";
>
> instead of confusing:
>
> page.10 = TEXT
> page.10.value = Hello world


I can imagine a middle ground here; e.g. a setup where, since 'new' TS
will be php objects internally, those objects' properties could be set
directly from templates...might be interesting.


> > What will help is to create a consistent and clean naming scheme and a
> > cleaning up of the most weird syntax problems. I agree with you that
> > "stdWrap", "getText" and "if" should be changed completely. And I'm sure
> > they will change as, so it was my perception on T3DD07, a consensus to
> > clean up TS, but not to replace it completely.
>
>
> You cannot make it procedural and that is necessary.
>
> You have to be expert to build sites in Typo3 - that has to be changed.



"Has to"? This subject comes up 3 times a year on this list like
clockwork, but I think it almost always makes incorrect assumptions a)
about the comparative simplicity of other CMS tools, and b) about
/who/ the people are that TYPO3 is designed to appeal to are, and what
TYPO3's primary purpose is.

For (a), it's definitely true that you need to be an expert to use
TYPO3, but this is also very true of other CMS tools. For example,
even though a tool like Drupal--a tool with a reputation for being
easy to work with--is very easy to use php with, it takes quite a lot
of study of the API in order to do so effectively and without
duplicating functionality that's already avaialble.

Similarly, other powerful CMS tools like Xaraya and Plone have
proprietary templating 'languages' (Xaraya) or their very own server
software (Zope for Plone) that must be learned before it's possible to
use the tools well.

For (b), IMO, TYPO3's core audience is (and as far as I can tell, has
been since the very beginning) people or companies that need to build
/many/ websites. Its primary users, in other words, are those people
for whom it is /worthwhile/ to spend a lot of time learning a complex
tool. TYPO3 is a /poor/ tool for anyone who does not have an ongoing
need to build new websites, and /many/ of the complainants on the
lists over the years have been people who had no such need.

IMO, I think it's much more reasonable to compare TYPO3 to another
kind of development framework such as e.g. Ruby on Rails than it is to
compare it to other CMS tools. In the same way that an experienced
Ruby developer is still going to have to learn about the Rails
framework to make effective use of Rails, an experienced PHP developer
will need to learn TS to come to grips with TYPO3. I don't see this as
a problem.

Having said that, TS /does/ badly need the possibility of syntax
checking and error-reporting; I'd say that a more predictable syntax,
and instant feedback about the /nature/ of any errors would solve the
largest TS/TYPO3 learning problems we have at the moment.



-- 
Christopher Torgalson
http://www.typo3apprentice.com/