[Typo3-dev] Make configuration simple

[Kasper Skårhøj]

Thanks Sven, very useful.

I will save for later reference.

I would like to use XML actually, but only if we have a way to do semantics 
check on the XML from php. In other words, standard PHP installations must 
have some XML functions that let me validate if the XML configuraiton from 
somewhere complies with the DTD/Schema it should follow. That would be a 
helping hand. And, oh, we must have a web-based tool for building the 
configuration based on the schema/DTD as well, otherwise it doesn't make so 
much sense. 

And notice this: Standard PHP, not some fancy beta-plugin that common hosters 
doesn't have installed.

- kasper



On Thursday 13 October 2005 14:31, Sven Wilhelm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > Lets get practical.
>
> no problem :)
>
> > If there is a standard outside TYPO3 that fits all our requirements I
> > want to use that unless it is actually bad (XML is nice for many things
> > but as JoH also hints at, representing TypoScript with XML will make it
> > twice as long and not easier)
>
> and it make it usable by other systems too, one thing that community
> often forgets! When I need TYPO3 to configure all parts of the system
> that is bad. If I have a standard way to let development environment or
> any other specialized system configure the system, I'm much more open
> and more professional companies will join.
>
> XML knowledge is available by all professional companies. The motivation
> to learn special systems, most times not. The company will use another
> system, java based or something else.
>
> > If there is no standard outside TypoScript that can give us a uniform
> > framework for all configuration needs we must invent one ourselves that
> > fits us perfectly.
>
> Ok, I think you will know much more better if things could be solved
> with this systems, but some ideas from mine as I see this concepts as
> very powerful (please without any prejudice :)
> Only XML one.
>
> Very new on the floor: ZCML (Zope Configuration Markup Language)
> Used inside ZOPE to configure many parts like the products (zope
> extensions) - Registering Interfaces, Classes that implement them,
> Rights Management,...
>
> Much more longer on the floor: Eclipse (and very heavy with it's concepts)
> Has a very basic and powerful concept "LAZY LOADING" which needs many
> declarative informations inside XML and only loads the implementation
> parts when requested (a way fully usable by the web).
> Eclipse uses xml schema so each plugin can specify it's own necessary
> semantic.
>
> Each TYPO3 extension could have it's own extension directory directly
> under typo3conf for it's customized configuration.
>
> > Our current (solved) needs are:
> > - TypoScript Templates
>
> how much Typoscript do you need if the template system is powerfull
> enough? see TAL (ZOPE) or the PHP Implementation PHPTAL
>
> > - Page/User TSconfig,
>
> Could be full powered by XML
>
> > - Extensions configuration
>
> I think also full transferable to XML
>
> > - TYPO3_CONF_VARS
> > - Must be possible to apply globally (like TYPO3_CONF_VARS) and embed in
> > page hierarchy (like TypoScript Templates, Page/User TSconfig)
>
> Should nothing speak against the possibility to update xml values in
> deeper page sections.
>
> The contra is the question how much flexibility is enough, where do you
> want to harden the configuration.
>
> Also another point i18n:
> There is no really need for xml, just a files like the gettext ones with
> format for sprintf.
>
> > Our future needs are:
> > - extendable other imaginable scenarios
> > - must be possible to validate semantically (not only syntax as now)
> > - must be easily human editable
> > - must be possible to write a nice GUI frontend for (editing)
> > - must have self-contained documentation of the features, plus definition
> > of data types and other conditions
> >
> >
> > Actually, I doubt that other configuration frameworks can offer much more
> > than another syntax because the semantics are always defined by the
> > application using the configuration, right?
>
> Full ack, I agree with that above. I only wanted to tell not use the
> 100% own way but take up the concepts of other systems.
>
> > .... and when it comes to syntax we could easily develop an abstraction
> > layer that allows TypoScript syntax or some XML schema to be used in the
> > future.
> >
> >
> > The main challenge is to validate the configuration syntax semantically
> > and I will claim that what confuses people about TypoScript is not the
> > syntax but the fact that they never know when they misspell something or
> > place a property in a context where it doesn't make sense. THIS is the
> > problem and THAT we can only solve on our own (I think, considering our
> > needs).
>
> Possible with XML. Also by external systems :)
>
>
>
> Sven
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-- 
- kasper

-----------------
Think future, not feature