[TYPO3-50-general] Technical concepts for TYPO3 v5 backend

Thomas Allmer at at delusionworld.com
Mon Feb 9 21:19:44 CET 2009

Thomas Fritz wrote:
> But what i want to say is that some parts of your comparison are just not
> true or not comparable.

I'm really thankful for your detailed answer as it really helped me to 
understand ExtJS a little more. And of course you are right I just tried 
to compare things I knew - I just wrote what I experienced. And yeah I 
have updated my post to show that I'm a little wrong at some places :).

> [...] But you can build your own set of widgets and components here
> http://extjs.com/products/extjs/build/ or you just include the set of files
> from the source folder you need. This could also be done by an autoloader
> mechanism.

yeah I think such a autoloader features is needed for every library. I 
mean I wrote mine for MooTools but every library could need one...

> [...] But everyone
> will agree that you can not compare the size of this two librarys. [...]

yeah true, if you need a lot of stuff you have to include a lot of 
stuff. As long as it's package based you can always create an autoloader 
or just include the stuff you need.

> Second, you wrote that the Ext Panel made 49 Lines out of 2 Lines. Whats the
> point here? Nobody and Nothing will see this ever! [...]

hmm, I still think that it's important to don't create to complected 
HTML and some of the ExtJS widgets seems to do this (as fare as I can 
tell) However this is not against the Library here - it about some 
widgets - and yeah there are tons of bad widgets for MooTools too... :p

> [...] But think of web-applications, where the output is created dynamically
> from PHP. In ExtJS you only pass config objects to the components. And thats
> the case in all components. I think it is easier to maintain and is more
> powerful than pure js function calls.

I generally don't like the idea to create dynamic javascript. If you 
need to load some data with ajax it should be json of course. But for 
the first load it should just modify the html content and don't relay on 
ajax from the beginning. (because you don't see anything without ajax 

> I think
> thats also a point when it comes to "technical concepts" and not only if
> progressive enhancement should be used or not. Of course it should be used,
> but only when it makes sense and when it is needed.

I think it should be used to at least to some kind of a minimal level. 
If you have Tabs you should see the content without js. If you have a 
Table  you should at least see the table content without js. And here 
the ExtJS examples show a pretty bad practice (I think) as there is just 
js and js only...

> You also made examples of non-progressive enhancement Tabs with MooTools and
> ExtJS. You see again here that the API of Ext is much easier to understand
> once you worked a little bit with it. Change or add some config values and
> the result is the same. But again, i think you can not compare these
> libraries with each other that easy with a simple Tab example.

*here* yeah the MooTools version here was some sort a quick hack... :p I 
didn't really wanted to write a new class that creates the elements on 
the fly and supports tabbing...

but you are right - you can not really compare 2 libraries with simple 
tabs. Moreover as we see now it really just depends on your personal 
preference which library you use - as the are all more and more similar 
and can do almost the same. (I like the way MooTools works so I use it)

> By the way, you also could have used Ext to create an example like you did
> with jQuery or MooTools. I made it just for fun. I also removed the classes
> Tab and TabContent from the markup, because when you progressively enhance
> your html you CAN and should not know that at this stage. So you can not add
> a class Tab and TabContent at this moment. Right? 

good catch - I actually was a little lazy here. As I created the CSS 
enhanced version I didn't wanted to write .FlowTabs h4 as it would fail 
if I decided to use h6 or whatever. So I just added a class. You can do 
it of course without any of these classes... with MooTools, jQuery, 

> Here is my ExtJS Tab Example -
> http://fritzthomas.com/files/extjs-progressive-enhancement-example/ - hehe.
> But please do not let us begin to flame each other now. ;-) It was just fun.

really really thank you for this...

> I only want to show that you can not compare it to Ext that way.
> Ähm,... and i think you forgot to mention that there is no Tabs Integration
> in MooTools like you showed in your example. Here is the code for your Tabs
> you forget to show us:
> http://www.delusionworld.com/files/MPR/Tabs/FlowTabs/FlowTabs.inline.js.
> Oh,...now your whole code has 105kb and not only 4 lines of code. ;-)

hehe, I stated that I wrote this class just for this example - hmm yeah 
if you don't MooTools Classes it might not say you much... sorry didn't 
thought about that...

> Be fair!! ;-)

*hehe* I try, but I'm human so I just write my experiences... and they 
are biased - hell yeah! :p

| Thomas Allmer                   |   http://www.delusionworld.com    |
| E-mail: at at delusionworld.com    |   phone: +43 699 16217064         |

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