[FLOW3-general] Rumours of Phoenix dropping ExtJS?

["Christian Müller (Kitsunet)"]

> watching this video and hearing what Sebastian said about ExtJs made me
> Smile...
>
> because if I remember correctly back in 2009 I started some discussions
> about pros/cons ExtJS... I also wanted to push Progressive Enhancement...
>
> sorry had to look it up :p
> on the 06.02.2009 I actually wrote some points against ExtjS one of it was:
> "9) 90% client-side code -- I still want to do some php with FLOW3"
>
> with the conclusion
> "I'm sorry but I don't think ExtJS is the right framework to build
> TYPO3v5 - I mean its good for TYPO3v4 (nice things out of the box,
> powerful data grids) - but to build the next best CMS the javascript
> should be taken more seriously."
>
> seems like after more then 2.5 years the TYPO3v5 team finally agrees
> with me :p

Mmm, yes but there a few things to say about this...
I don't know about the decision as I was not part of the team at that 
point in time, but to me after seeing the UX/design concepts (last year) 
it was totally under to choose ExtJS or any full clientside interface 
framework for that matter. Those concepts simply had no room for 
enhacement, you may argue that it could be possible with enhancement too 
but I don' think it would have been easier than ExtJS and that was 
really hard too (as explained in the video). So I don't think at that 
point in time ExtJS was such a bad decision to use.

Additionally there is the proverb of "making the experience yourself", 
sometimes that is just needed to gain certain insights...

And finally please share your experiences with us and join the team. If 
you feel you had known it from the beginning, don't wait, we are 
searching for devs all the time, just help us out and bring your 
experience in.

>
> don't know SproutCore 2, but I guess I have to take a look...
>
> I hope that it's code is well encapsulated and may be replaced by other
> JS and that almost all functionality is on the Serverside - Progressive
> Enhancement please :)
>
> Just so that you know this is as far as I know one of the best "middle
> Layer" for Javascript... don't know if SproutCore probably has it, but I
> can only tell that it changed the way how I write and see javascript...
>
> and it's super easy to use if you have a basic knowledge of HTML only...
>
> http://www.clientcide.com/code-releases/clientcide-3-0-behavior-1-0-mootools-development-and-so-much-more/
>
>
> cheers
>
> PS: if you have any question regarding javascript behaviors feel free to
> ask.

I know clientcide a bit and it is really nice. Sproutcore doesn't do it 
that way, but I think that is good for certain parts. Look at our code 
and you see there are parts that use enhancement and some that rely on 
the javascript, but that is (in my opinion) needed for our editing 
experience. We need a model to keep track of content properties and 
changes to the content, it all gets very complex fast if you want to mix 
Aloha with non Aloha content add in autosaving (to local storage and 
server) and properties that cannot be edited in the page itself (like 
hidden, image position and so on). I doubt that is possible without 
having a javascript model of your content.

cheers
Christian