[TYPO3-hci] 4.1 = menubar/iconbar/dashboard; lets go!

[Troels Kjær Rasmussen]

Jumping in to the discussion, please forgive me if I missed something or
contribute with redundant information.

I checked out Kaspers video and think it´s really great - especially I´m
in love with the dashboard idea. One thing, however I noticed as a case
of "maybe not so proper" usability is the redundancy in fuctionality
between the main menu and the subpanel. Again comming from a users
perspective redundant functionality is hard to comprehend, especially if
the redundancy is not well described in the userinterface itself.

 From the old UI a couple of redundant "classics" where the save/save
and view/save and close/close buttons, which appeared on both the top
and the bottom of forms.In fact these represented a double redundancy,
because the buttons had what seemed as (almost) the same functionality
to the users. Also the choice of clearing cache in both dropdowns and as 
an icon in the form confused it´s share of endusers.

My suggestion or thought would/could be to employ the subpanel as a form 
control rather than a second (this time iconbased) option to access 
modules or funtions already appearing in the main bar.

Also simplification could be done by sorting out elements in default 
views (save,close,save and close as known from unnamed userinterfaces) 
and a simple javascript Advanced foldout tab. Then when users need more 
tools in the default view they could simply pull things from the 
advanced tab to the customized default view (scriptoulus?).

The same advanced pullouts could be implemented in the (view more) icon 
or whatever it is in the forms themselves.

I´ve deliberately pointed out things, which I think could be done with 
(extensive, though) DHTML/javascript manipulation of the EXISTING forms, 
so we would necesarrily have to recode alt_doc a.s.o.

Well the best way to see things is by visualization, so here goes a 
dummy snapshot (and sorry for the poor quality)...

http://troels.linkfactory.dk/UI.png



regards (...and currently putting on his teflonsuit!)
Troels Kjær Rasmussen, Denmark




Kasper Skårhøj skrev:
> Sorry for that.
> 
> I love drag-n-drop for moving. We should have that in TemplaVOila page 
> module, normal page module, list module as well - and for files. But 
> this is not the focus of the 4.1 release.
> 
> AJAX page tree - I would see what Ingmar Schlect has made for 4.1 - 
> something happened at T3DD in August.
> 
> Tabs for Web submodules. I think they support erics idea. Are that tabs 
> just linking to the modules or do you have separate IFRAMES for each (to 
> switch quickly between already opened tabs)?
> 
> I suggest, your tabs move up to the tabbar I plan for the top of my 
> suggestion (see my mail to patrick). SHoluld be possible for you.
> 
> - kasper
> 
> 
> On Oct 11, 2006, at 12:40 , Maximo Cuadros wrote:
> 
>> Hi,  Kasper, this is the screencast:
>> http://t3.mcuadros.es/fileadmin/ext/DojoWebModule.html
>>
>> I post it in another thread.
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> On 10/11/06, Erich Althaus - CS2 <erich.althaus at cs2.ch> wrote:
>>> Hi there
>>>
>>>> We could also decide that the Web>Page module becomes Web>Pagetree?
>>>
>>> Hmmm? I think one of the Problems the End Users have is the Thing 
>>> that they are not able to make the Link that the Modules are not 
>>> Functions, only different Views. I think this is one of the Points 
>>> which irritates them the most.
>>>
>>> That's why I decided to move those views directly to Content. Then 
>>> it's clear where those infos belong to.
>>>
>>> In actual BE when clicking on Web>Page, it does not show Pagetree, it 
>>> shows Pagetree with a View of the Page. Same in Web>List, this shows 
>>> Pagetree with List View. Therefore the Naming is correct, on my point 
>>> of view.
>>>
>>> Kasper, do you haven a visual Example (Screenshot) what you 
>>> understand under Word "Dashboard"?
>>>
>>> Greets and Thx
>>>
>>> Erich
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: typo3-team-hci-bounces at lists.netfielders.de 
>>> [mailto:typo3-team-hci-bounces at lists.netfielders.de] Im Auftrag von 
>>> Kasper Skårhøj
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Oktober 2006 12:17
>>> An: TYPO3 human computer interaction team
>>> Betreff: Re: [TYPO3-hci] 4.1 = menubar/iconbar/dashboard; lets go!
>>>
>>> Thanks Patrick!
>>>
>>> I'm happy to read Erich struck something!
>>>
>>>> 1- The highlight (for me...) is the fact that the page tree (and
>>>> Filelist) are written, easily selectable and visible.
>>>
>>> I have decided to add yet an area: The tabbar. So we have menubar/
>>> iconbar/tabbar. Iconbar and tabbar are only shown if there are
>>> content in them of course.
>>>
>>> In the tab bar we can place tabs linking to theoretically anything,
>>> but by default we can install a link to Web>Page and File>Filelist.
>>> We allow alternative namings.
>>>
>>> In the right side of the tab bar I want the actual running module to
>>> install things with AJAX. This could be tabs to submodules as Erich
>>> suggest. Or for say the Doc module it could be buttons like "SAVE"
>>> "CANCEL" etc.
>>>
>>> With this, Erichs suggestion can be implemented, but the framework is
>>> more generally able to host other usages for other needs extensions
>>> will have.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pagetree (as we almost call it) is so much better than Web->Page as
>>>> it's
>>>>   straight forward, use the "real" name and is for most editors, the
>>>> central point of TYPO3.
>>>
>>> We will allow people to put an alternative name on the tabs.
>>>
>>> We could also decide that the Web>Page module becomes Web>Pagetree?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2- I'm not sure for the clipboard in case of a large >200 pages
>>>> Pagetree. We're used to normal apps with Edit->Paste so maybe
>>>> Clipboard
>>>> is a good contender for the application bar (Kasper's horizontal bar).
>>>
>>> The trick to make the new design work is using an IFRAME to run what
>>> was previously in the bigger framesets "content" frame. Hence, I see
>>> no way we can have drag-n-drop across frames into a clipboard. The
>>> idea is nice though but should be implemented inside the frames
>>> themselves.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3- The view from Eric mock up is for no apparent reason more
>>>> temptating
>>>> to use. I never used the view/magnified glass available in the last 3
>>>> years but with the tab it's more likely I would use it. Maybe it's the
>>>> fact that it's almost instantly showing(since it's just a mock up) and
>>>> that give me this impression of usefulness suddenly...
>>>>
>>>> 4- The faux-spotlight menu showned in Kasper's video could possibly
>>>> replace the old "Search string/Show record" and then make the editing
>>>> area less packed. (see the box in list view in Eric's work)
>>>>
>>>> 5- We must bring the Undo/history feature easier to reach. The
>>>> thing is
>>>> that we have Versionning that also kind of compete in the same area.
>>>> This is a tab or section that needs to be further analyzed with people
>>>> that never used TYPO3.
>>>
>>> We need to wait with this for a later version because its all about
>>> what is _inside_ the new framework of menu/icon/tab etc. I want to
>>> create that framework first.
>>>
>>> However, its important to have these visions posted already because
>>> we must make sure our new framework supports with a high possibility
>>> the future re-organizations of things to make other parts more
>>> userfriendly!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6- Help/About/Doc: Mac and Windows used to have the menu item Help or
>>>> About that consist of those. So maybe a straight Help menu could
>>>> effectively group together:
>>>>    About this server
>>>>    About modules installed
>>>>    Documentation/manuals
>>>>    WebStaff help center (custom link)
>>>>
>>>> It should be easy for admin to add links there relative to the use of
>>>> their site. I'm thinking about some pages under a sysfolder with
>>>> How-to
>>>> or even links to some intranets docs in a corporate environment.
>>>
>>> It will be configurable enough for all of this.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the Help menu could also be the host for some reports, logs and
>>>> statistics.
>>>
>>> Could be - or the dashboard! This is where I imagine such applications.
>>>
>>> Look at Joomla; They have a default screen with such reports
>>> including a nice matrix of links to various functionality. We should
>>> ahve the same - but in a dash-board fashion that can be customized.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> (I understand that you feel the old backend was good enough for
>>>>> admins.
>>>>> For 4.1 it will definitely stay as an option but we should be open to
>>>>> improvements to the new menu/icon concept that even admins like to
>>>>> work
>>>>> with in terms of efficiency)
>>>>
>>>> One thing that we also should keep in mind is that all those fine
>>>> personalizations should be lockable so the admin still get complete
>>>> control if he wants standard looking BE.
>>>
>>> Got it.
>>> I plan to offer saving them to XML files which can even be
>>> distributed in extensions - a first step to having predefined "Roles"!
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a rule of the thumb must be: What is not possible to change for
>>>> a BE
>>>> user should be invisible. Here I'm referring to the present User-
>>>>> Setup
>>>> where users can still see stuff he shouldn't.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.tragamin.com/t3_be/Home.html
>>>>
>>>> Eric, that's fantastic that you did that so fast. I mean, I'm someone
>>>> who need stuff from others to dig deeper and with your mock up I was
>>>> able to describes ideas I had for a long time. Thanks for that. And...
>>>> same for Kasper. It's sadly easier to comment than do the actual
>>>> coding
>>>> but we should be able to get it right with the eyeballs in this group
>>>> and the help of few new people not used to TYPO3.
>>>
>>> I have two roles for this release:
>>> - Create a framework that facilitates the possibilities anyone wants
>>> (like Erics and Tapios ideas) [Obligation as a core developer]
>>> - Solve the problems of my clients. [Personal itch]
>>>
>>> Thats it, no more, no less.
>>>
>>> - kasper
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Necessity is the mother of invention"
>>>>
>>>> Ah the Mothers of Invention...what a musical group.  ;)
>>>>
>>>> Patrick
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TYPO3-team-hci mailing list
>>>> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
>>>> http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-team-hci
>>>
>>> - kasper
>>>
>>> "Necessity is the mother of invention"
>>> -------------------------------
>>> kasper2006 at typo3.com | +45 20 999 115 | skype: kasperskaarhoej |
>>> gizmo: kasper_typo3
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
>>> http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-team-hci
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TYPO3-team-hci mailing list
>> TYPO3-team-hci at lists.netfielders.de
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> 
> - kasper
> 
> "Necessity is the mother of invention"
> -------------------------------
> kasper2006 at typo3.com | +45 20 999 115 | skype: kasperskaarhoej | gizmo: 
> kasper_typo3
> 
> 
> 
> 
>