[TYPO3-hci] BE vs FE

[Tapio Markula]

Waldemar Kornewald wrote:

> tried Typo3, but the backend is ridiculously complicated.

what way?
Personally I like the page tree - it is easy to see the page structure.

The default page module is as such bad - I made it easier to use

test
http://t3test.xetpoint.com/typo3/

as tester + tester

test both
'Interface' 'Backend' and 'Frontend'


> seems that we won't get around using Typo3 and I hope that we can help
> with improving usability (and that you are interested in our
> suggestions).

> Why is there a separation between frontend and backend users?

for setting *editing* possibilities - they are commonly only for backend 
users.
Frontend users are commonly only users, which can *see* but not edit 
pages. Some extensions allows to set also editing for frontend users.


> This is probably only for 5.0:
> I think that we should finally get rid of this "backend" concept. AJAX
> makes this possible. Backends are more difficult to understand. What
> speaks against only having a frontend and showing simple "Edit",
> "Items", and "Admin" buttons in a simple bar at the top of every web
> page? 

in fact this is possible - test
http://t3test.xetpoint.com/typo3/

as tester + tester
as 'Interface:' 'Frontend' mode

That doesn't support AJAX for moving content elements - one designer
made a visual demo - but I didn't save the changes.

> individual "segments" everything could become WYSIWYG-based. You could
> add forms and plugins right into the editor and configure them
> visually. Pages should become the central concept.

pages use WYSIWYG editor for normal contents. forms have form editor,
to add/remove new fields - handy but not WYSIWYG.

> I understand that a page tree is a nice abstraction, but manipulating
> your site in-place is even better because there is no need to abstract
> anything.

It is extremely easy to move/copy pages using drag'ndrop functionality
- that possibility can never be in frontend.

> Also, the current "items" concept (page list-view) is nice,
> but isn't normally a plugin needed to store items?
> In many cases it's
> probably better to allow plugins to add special actions to the website
> (when logged-in) and let plugins manage items.

It is possible to disable Web > List view. Administrator can disable 
modules from normal users/user groups. Typo can be extremely 
minimalistic, if needed. Then *only* 'Page' module is used.

test
http://t3test.xetpoint.com/typo3/

using minimal + minimal

  For example the news
> plugin could add a "manage news" button

news don't have a module - good idea endeed.

> The biggest problem of today's CMSes is that they expose their
> implementation details to the user. IMHO, all tasks should be
> performed *directly* and *in-place* instead of splitting them accross
> implementation details like folders/containers. E.g.: why do you
> separate news items from news plugins?

to store news items into different pages. You can store items under the 
same page or elsewhere. You can collect news from different pages,
if you want. You are right, that news could be organized better.