[TYPO3-templavoila] TYPO3-project-templavoila Digest, Vol 102, Issue 1
Andreas Becker
cocopapa at gmail.com
Wed May 6 01:51:53 CEST 2015
hi Wouter
We provide help to people - especially our customers with TemplaVoila Websites and this is also kind of support for TYPO3 as they otherwise would simply move already to another more reliable CMS.
What you are doing here right now is nothing else than continuing the problems TYPO3 had since years due to the fact that the great development of TemplaVoila had been treated badly concerning working with the TYPO3 core.
This is one reason why their are now TV and TYPO3 forks which actually work together. Your initiative had been great and was very appreciated. Thanks. but please don't blame those who keep a huge base of TemplaVoila sites up and running still until now which actually helps TYPO3.
You promised to maintain TemplaVoila until the end of 6.2 LTS Life Circle and you are now breaking that promise. i can understand you as money makes the world go round but why did the Association did not support your effort as it helps TYPO3 a lot to keep valuable customer with TYPO3.
Now again you declare like Toleiv TemplaVoila as DEAD and this is harming the whole TYPO3 USER Community which runs sites with TemplaVoila. It is false to do that as you can declare your further engagement for dead but NOT TemplaVoila.
What do you want actually?
more people running away from TYPO3 as already have been running away due to very bad marketing and politics. It is NOT the code why people actually run away from TYPO3 it is the people who declare things for dead and ignoring all those who are still using and maintaining their versions of TemplaVoila for their customers.
Ron's Framework for TemplaVoila is until now the best choice to build huge multilingual multidomain sites. None of the other methods can reach the water until now to what you can accomplish with TemplaVoila and the Framework for TemplaVoila. one major reason why until now many many customers of TV sites want to stay with TV OR move to another CMS. Many of them are fed up by a walk over graveyard like you just continue.
Simply be honest! YOU and perhaps Alexander ( actually he sounded very enthusiastic in his mail concerning TV ) want MONEY and this MONEY is not coming so you stop the official maintenance of the TemplaVoila Version in TER. OK this is YOUR choice but it is for sure NOT the choice of many Developers and Agencies which still run and maintain TemplaVoila Websites for their customers as it is still THE BEST option.
Simply be fair to all those who help to keep people with TYPO3 and which spend lots of hours in maintaining their TV sites to keep them. Like I said before we invite all people who still want to use TemplaVoila to contact us or any other agency which is using and still maintaining an active and secure version of TemplaVoila in TYPO3 6.2 for their old and new customers. Siegfried thanks for your post, he is another great agency still using and maintaing TV sites for his customers. TV is NOT DEAD at all, it is alive but unfortunately it seems some people like to see it DEAD and therefore post it as DEAD. I recommend leaving those people where they are right now on the TYPO3 graveyard and instead contacting those who still care for their customers needs.
None of those other templating methods beside the standard templating in TYPO3 has a record in running big sites successfully. Many customers of TYPO3 meanwhile check mailinglists and forums to figure out themselves what is actually going on. check Flux and agencies/developers which build sites on flux base and often you can hear that they are not sure themselves if FLUX is a good way a longlasting way. What is if FLUX gets declared DEAD because the ONE and only developer who has all its know how can't maintain it anymore. What about gridelements and other methods which help with templating? how often does Customers probably need to switch from one templating methode to another level and because their maintainers declare it as DEAD?
Sorry but than TYPO3 is simply a DEAD END system which will never be a reliable system anymore like it has been from 3.6 until 4.5!!! Customers constantly need to fear that things get declared DEAD and until now there is no way of templating be integrated into the core with the features TemplaVoila is providing until now. it will take again many years until something similar will be actually a part of the core, this we already learned from TYPO3 history - development in TYPO3 is very very slow in userfriendly features. Like said before TYPO3 Version 7 is great and the right way but it lacks lots of those features which made TYPO3 big like TemplaVoila did it! Please don't ignore it!
Nevermind we ensure our customers that TemplaVoila will run in TYPO3 6.2 LTS and this will give them some years to make a decision and to wait if a development of Templavoila Features inside the core is really taking place or not, and of course they can see how long it might take until they would be stable enough to be used in production sites. Than they still can make their decision to switch either to another templating methode or even another much better and much faster CMS like http://processwire.com , which has a community like TYPO3 had in 2002-2006 very very helpful and very enthusiastic and reliable and fast and 100% focussed on usability! And positive customer experience! And typo3 customers can ask at their forum for help in converting their TYPO3 sites to Processwire.
There nothing gets declared DEAD! Just because a maintainer does not like to maintain a module or extension anymore. The great thing on Open Source Software is actually that it is really difficult to declare something as DEAD if there are still forks existing.
so let's stop to declare TemplaVoila for DEAD and instead look forward to keep all our TemplaVoila Customers which are still willing after all those walks over TYPO3 graveyards to continue with TYPO3. TemplaVoila is ALIVE! As long as one site is running TemplaVoila!
Sent from my iPad
> On 6 พ.ค. 2558, at 04:29, Wouter Wolters <typo3 at wouterwolters.nl> wrote:
>
> tl;dr
>
> First of all spell my name correctly!
>
> Please don't go back to 2008, we live in 2015!!
>
> We are not harming anybody here. They had the time to react to our questions, but we got no serious response till now!
>
> I will stop posting here now because this is a waste of time. You are only interested in a working version of TemplaVoila without spending a dime on it.
>
> If you want to use/support TemplaVoila so badly than step forward and provide your help.
>
> Andi schreef op 5-5-2015 om 15:46:
>> I have been told actually by Alexander that he is very interested to continue the work and that he is refaktoring a lot.
>>
>> Until now there is unfortunately no real Alternatve to templavoila, even it is great to see how Version 7 is now developing in the right direction but it is happening unfortunately much to late as customers need sutions now and not in several years from now.
>>
>> Check back all those discussions before 2008 were lots of people rant against TemplaVoila and now the first post on git to that topic show that now the core team wod be perhaps more willing to get things integrated into the core so that more great TV will be actually available by default.
>>
>> Wouters and Alexander did great work no doubt and I am sure that there will be some continuing, perhaps if it won't be as easy visible as right now! There are much to much customers out there which are actually until now NOT willing to start with fluid or gridelements or themes as they are still very happy with templavoila.
>>
>> The framework for templavoila is also no more visible for those who don't know where to get the dev version but it is working just great in TYPO3 6.2.
>>
>> As long as there is no real alternative to TV and all its features - multilingual - fux is reall crappy when you have to deal with lots of translations and test it out with huge sides uffff. better not.
>>
>> What will be the timeframe until those great TV features perhaps would be integrated into the TYPO3 Core???
>>
>> 5 or 7 years from now?
>> yes there is a fast development of TYPO3 Version7 and more and more extensions are working in versions higher than 7.1.99 and we actually use it for smaller projects.
>>
>> Moox is a very nice alternatve based on Flux too but has those flux related problems which does it make a non recommended system for bigger or even multilingual sites.
>>
>> So what do you recommend customers which are running now on Templavoila?
>>
>> I tell you what we do, if they are not at all interested in moving to another templating method.
>>
>> We recommend them to stay with TYPO3 AND TemplaVoila in 6.2 (and until now we converted already lots of TV Framework sites to 6.2 successfully) and If they are willing to swith to flux or other TYPO3 ways of doing Templates we are also moving them there but to be honest most customers are already so tired of the TYPO3 way of development that they consider moving to a more mature and easier maintain CMS than TYPO3.
>>
>> Even many of them moved to Wordpress what we don't recommend but their argumentation is good. A TYPO3 site since 4.5 LTS came up had more problems and cost them
>> more time and especially money than a WordPress Site which brings them money nearly from the first step its online published. Ok it has security issues but it is simply working!
>>
>> As real alternatvie to TYPO3 we recommend customers to build their sites with Process Wire. Here lots of those benefits you had in TYPO3 and Wordpress got combined. and it is very very fast and not at all a dinosaur. Beside this Processwire is very flexible in building all kind of templates. It is also much less vulnerable for update problems than TYPO3 has been until now.
>>
>> Sepearted core, Formbuilder, profile manger, easy doing backups, versatile User Group Management similar to TYPO3, very easy to move sites to a new server or to multiply sites, of course multilingual much easier than actually TYPO3, multidomain capable with one database like Typo3 or with each own databse per multisite from one core like in Drupal both is possible, Updating your site with one click, updating extensions with one click, all this makes Processwire very userfriendly and also ver very developerfriendly beside the fact that no additional language like TYPOscript needs to be learned at all and that you will find many more qualified and especially also affordable developers all around the world.
>>
>> In our experience people liked TYPO3 a lot but most of them got tired of the conflicts it was causing when updates and new developments took place.
>>
>> Fact is until now there is nothing which can really replace all the benefits of Templavoila and if TV dies - well TYPO3 will die a little bit more too.
>>
>> The only help for TYPO3 actually would be to keep all TV customers with TYPO3 until Version7 is so mature to replace TV. It might take the whole 3-4 years of an 6.2 LTS release but it would be worth doing it.
>>
>> Yes TV is active more than you think and if you have customers who want to continue with TV don't hesitate to tell them that they are not alone with their problem and if you don't want to maintain their sites any more because they are made in TemplaVoila than don't hesitate and send them here ad we are still maintaining lots of TV sites in the next years! Yes TV is
>> running in 6.2 LTS and I pretty sure it even will run in 7.6 LTS. All TV customers can be a vital part of this TV movement or not but please stop telling TV is DEAD as this is 100% not true.
>>
>> if you stop now to continue TV and publish it even as a great TV stop so you are actually harming lots of agencies which still work with TV.
>>
>> If you retire as the maintainers of the Vetsion which is listed in TER and git so it is your think and should stay your think. For us we try to keep as many customers with TYPO3 and if they are using TYPO3 with TV and don't like to switch to grid flux or whatshowever we run them on Framework for TemplaVoila and TemplaVoila. or we help them to get their sites running on alternative CMS without TYPO3 headaches.
>>
>> TV is alive and will stay alive with us at least and I am sure that there are also other agencies out there which will continue maintaing their forks too.
>>
>> Again I wish you all the best woulters without TV and thank you for your great work both of you did after tolleiv left TemplaVoila. I respect and understand your personal and perhaps also political decision.
>>
>> But Customers with TYPO3 TemplaVoila Sites don't need to worry as TV will stay alive with othet agencies. Best example is the Framework for TemplaVoila itself!
>>
>> Kind regards and please don't burytalk TemplaVoila - please let it luve even without your personal maintenace!
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Andi
>> (Andreas Becker)
>>
>> 15/21 M.2 Viset Road
>> Rawai, Muang, Phuket
>> 83130 Thailand
>>
>> +66 (0)81 606 3378
>> +66 (0)76 38 33 08
>> +49 (0)711 50 88788 50 -2
>> +49 (0)711 50 88788 59 Fax
>>
>> Skype: lisandi
>> GoogleTalk: andi at lisandi.com
>> GoogleTalk: cocopapa
>> Youtube: apapococ
>> Facebook: andibecker
>> Flickr: andibecker
>>
>>
>>> On May 5, 2015, at 17:10, Wouter Wolters <typo3 at wouterwolters.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Andreas,
>>>
>>> Can you once and for all stop telling people that TemplaVoila is actively maintained? This gives people false hopes!!
>>>
>>> https://gist.github.com/alexanderschnitzler/7df8576d8abbcb8745b8
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Wouter Wolters
>>> TYPO3 CMS Active Contributor
>>>
>>> Andreas Becker schreef op 27-4-2015 om 2:32:
>>>> Sorry my English is so bad - I have to speak it every day! This is why I
>>>> practice my German ;-)
>>>> scroll back than you can read that it is developed actively!
>>>>
>>>> to translate German I recommend using Google Translate as it can translate
>>>> also to Dutch and other languages:
>>>> scroll times back on the list, then you see the developer as the work are
>>>> the TV will get alive and it also tidying up sharply. TV is still the best
>>>> solution for sites with many languages and many pages.
>>>>
>>>> scroll keer terug op de lijst, dan zie je de ontwikkelaar als het werk zijn van
>>>> de TV zal in leven te krijgen en het ook opruimen fors. TV is nog steeds de
>>>> beste oplossing voor sites met vele talen en vele pagina's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> เลื่อนเวลากลับมาในรายการแล้วคุณจะเห็นนักพัฒนาเป็นงานที่มีทีวีจะได้รับ
>>>> ยังมีชีวิตอยู่และยังจัดเก็บขึ้นอย่างรวดเร็ว ทีวียังคงเป็นทางออกที่ดีที่สุด
>>>> สำหรับเว็บไซต์ที่มีหลายภาษาและหลายหน้า
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> مرات التمرير مرة أخرى على القائمة، ثم ترى المطور كما عمل وسوف TV تحصل على
>>>> قيد الحياة والترتيب والتنظيم أيضا بشكل حاد. التلفزيون لا يزال هو الحل الأفضل
>>>> للمواقع مع العديد من اللغات والعديد من الصفحات.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> פעמים גלילה לאחור ברשימה, ואז אתה רואה את היזם כעבודה הוא הטלוויזיה תקבל
>>>> בחיים וזה גם שטיפה בחדות. טלוויזיה היא עדיין הפתרון הטוב ביותר עבור
>>>> אתרים עם שפות
>>>> רבות ודפים רבים.
>>>>
>>>> Met vriendelijke groeten
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 11:59 PM, Ric Roodlicht <roodlicht at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In English please?
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ric van Westhreenen
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Op 25 apr. 2015 om 6:26 p.m. heeft Andreas Becker <ab.becker at web.de>
>>>>>> het volgende geschreven:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> scrolle mal zurueck auf der liste, dann siehst du das da developer am
>>>>>> arbeiten sind die TV am leben erhalten werden und es zudem kraeftig
>>>>>> aufraeumen. TV ist nach wie vor die beste Loesung fuer seiten mit vielen
>>>>>> sprachen und vielen seiten.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Christoph Christ MCP-Softworks <
>>>>>> cchrist at mcpsoftworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I fear, Templavoila is not developed activly anymore :( I am already
>>>>>>> switching away to other means of deployment for my projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>>> Von: typo3-project-templavoila-bounces at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:typo3-project-templavoila-bounces at lists.typo3.org] Im Auftrag
>>>>> von
>>>>>>> typo3-project-templavoila-request at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 24. April 2015 12:00
>>>>>>> An: typo3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>> Betreff: TYPO3-project-templavoila Digest, Vol 102, Issue 1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Send TYPO3-project-templavoila mailing list submissions to
>>>>>>> typo3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>> http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-project-templavoila
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>>>> typo3-project-templavoila-request at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>>>> typo3-project-templavoila-owner at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
>>>>>>> "Re: Contents of TYPO3-project-templavoila digest..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Drag and drop jump to starting point problem...
>>>>>>> (Stig N?rgaard F?rch)
>>>>>>> 2. Re: Drag and drop jump to starting point problem...
>>>>>>> (Christian Welzel)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Message: 1
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 09:25:21 +0200
>>>>>>> From: Stig N?rgaard F?rch <snf at dkm.dk>
>>>>>>> Subject: [TYPO3-templavoila] Drag and drop jump to starting point
>>>>>>> problem...
>>>>>>> To: typo3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailman.1.1429860320.22114.typo3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can see that there is not much trafic here - but I'll give it a chance
>>>>>>> anyway :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have problem with drag and drop after an upgrade to TYPO3 6.2 and an
>>>>>>> upgrade of TemplaVoila as well.
>>>>>>> When I try to drag a content element further down on the page while
>>>>>>> scrolling, it sudden jumps back to the starting point. Here is a video:
>>>>>>> http://screencast.com/t/5bNcSfni74k
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> Stig
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 11:01:12 +0200
>>>>>>> From: Christian Welzel <gawain at camlann.de>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TYPO3-templavoila] Drag and drop jump to starting point
>>>>>>> problem...
>>>>>>> To: typo3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org
>>>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailman.1.1429866072.5032.typo3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org>
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 24.04.15 um 09:25 schrieb Stig N?rgaard F?rch:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have problem with drag and drop after an upgrade to TYPO3 6.2 and an
>>>>>>>> upgrade of TemplaVoila as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This problem also happens with 4.5.40 and TV 1.9.2.
>>>>>>> I already asked on the german list, but got no response, so i thought
>>>>> of it
>>>>>>> as local problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> MfG, Christian Welzel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GPG-Key: http://www.camlann.de/de/pgpkey.html
>>>>>>> Fingerprint: 4F50 19BF 3346 36A6 CFA9 DBDC C268 6D24 70A1 AD15
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> TYPO3-project-templavoila mailing list
>>>>>>> TYPO3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org
>>>>> http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-project-templavoila
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> End of TYPO3-project-templavoila Digest, Vol 102, Issue 1
>>>>>>> *********************************************************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
>>>>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> TYPO3-project-templavoila mailing list
>>>>>>> TYPO3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org
>>>>> http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-project-templavoila
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> TYPO3-project-templavoila mailing list
>>>>>> TYPO3-project-templavoila at lists.typo3.org
>>>>> http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-project-templavoila
>>>
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