[TYPO3-english] Re: Re: Searching and TYPO3 6.2 - again

[Thomas Skierlo]

Hi Jigal,

Quote: Jigal van Hemert wrote on Wed, 12 February 2014 10:53
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
> 
> On 12-2-2014 9:47, Thomas Skierlo wrote:
> > Quote: Thomas Skierlo (tsknl) wrote on Mon, 10 February 2014 17:33
> >> Can anyone confirm indexed_search working on a fresh install of 6.2.0?
> >> It would help me a lot to know, because in this case I have to look
> >> for an error in my configuration.
> >>
> >
> > Talking to myself - I've got no answers, except 2 private emails with a
> > message similar to "Don't bother with 6.2.0 - you'll lose all of your hair"
> 
> Since you mentioned in your original post that EXT:solr wasn't working 
> with TYPO3 6.2 you already got a reply from Olivier Dobberkau that the 
> current git version of solr is working with 6.2. They will probably 
> release a new community version around the time TYPO3 CMS 6.2 is released.
> 

Yes, I'm perfectly informed in terms of Solr.

> > Well, I'm already past that point, and, to be honest, I didn't have any
> > serious problems with community extensions. My only personal blocker is
> > core stuff: Indexd Search. IS issues on Forge just keep untouched, since
> > all people knowing more seem to use 4.5 with Solr. This might work for
> > them, but it will kill the whole product in the end.
> 
> Indexed Search issues should be fixed, but that is also the case for a 
> lot of other issues. In a community where most stuff is done voluntarily 
> (and unpaid) many devs "scratch their own itches".
> 

Yes. The only hard reason for my early use of TYPO3 6.2 was a new extension, which was finished for 6.1 in late december. It is ment for >6.0, so I wanted to test it on 6.2 as early as possible, and finalize the docs in latest standards. Since this extension needs a fully fledged website, I must fix all issues of my most basic setup and services first, including ANY search solution. It's simple as that. Couldn't do my job yet. And if I'm facing an issue, I'm getting tough on it. I don't move on until it's solved, or substituted. Tried substitution first, with no success (by now), so currently all I can do is fix IS, which was working well (never good) for a very long time. Or, to be more precise, I wanna fix it, if it's broken - or fix other things related.

> Every search solution has its pros and cons, but in many cases solr may 
> very well prove to be better than Indexed Search. The reasons are quite 
> simple that the engine (the solr server part) is the work of a large 
> community of search specialists. The indexing solution is often slightly 
> better than the concept used by IS.
> 

I see only one major pro for IS. It can be used without any additional application servers. It's slow, some filtering is weird, but it does the job for all sites up to 200-300 pages. Works (worked) in multidomain as well as multilingual environments, and it respects access rights.

Lucene, Solr, Google. Sure, all are better than IS. But it might be of bigger importance to get IS ready for 6.2, since it is integral part of the suite. With a hard dependency on Solr TYPO3 would get into trouble, since most recent features of Solr depend on some kind of payment (which is perfectly ok - as long as there is any working alternative)

> IS could be enough for a small site. If you have troubles setting it up 
> an article by Xavier Perseguers [1] will be helpful.
> 

Yes, I know the article. Excellent. Red it when it was published and after using IS for a couple of years on all versions from 4.2 up to 6.2.0beta3. From the following daily head on it made "puff", and the plugin was gone. I'd love to debug something which is "there", but I don't know how to debug something which is missing.

> If you find problems with IS, please see if there is already a forge 
> issue for it; if not please file one.

I already did, and if you blow away the dust, you'll see most of them red. My current favorite is another one: #52364 (or one of his many duplicates). ext_typoscript_setup.txt is hell. Claus is perfectly right. This method is absolutely beyond any control, and overrides all static templates. But even this monster is part of IS since aeons. Possibly inclusion behaviour might have been changed. My second assumption is, that something has been removed from Core, which was related to FE rendering or template inclusion. Or some former core stuff has moved into an extension, like with statictemplates, and no-one changed dependencies. Did not find any lethal changes in IS code recently, so i expect it to be core-change related.

> Create some buzz for the specific problems you encounter, ask people to 
> vote for the issues that are blocking for you. This makes it more likely 
> that devs will take a look at the issue.
> 

That's why I'm here

Regards,

Thomas