[TYPO3-english] TYPO3 CMS 6.0 activate sorting in page module?

[JoH asenau]

Am 09.12.2012 11:50, schrieb Jigal van Hemert:
> Hi,
>
> On 8-12-2012 11:57, JoH asenau wrote:
>> Exactly: Drag & drop is nice when you want to move elements between
>> columns or for longer distances. In any other case a simple click on a
>> sorting icon is much faster and therefor the better choice regarding
>> usability and performance.
>
> Reloading the entire page is faster? Besides, dragging can be done with
> the entire title bar and you don't have to look at a small triangle to
> see which button you should use. Most people prefer drag&drop over buttons.
> Also if you have to move it more than one position you would need to
> click multiple times, you would have to wait for multiple page reloads.
> Talking about speed...

Did you notice the "long distance"? - Moving elements up or down will be 
faster with a click, moving them for more than one or two steps will be 
faster with D&D.

>> On the one hand important buttons have been removed (sorting, add CE on
>> top of the module etc.)
>
> Add a CE on the top position of a "column"? That button is there. It's
> only visible on mouseover to reduce the amount of information.

Of course it is there, but I meant the button on top of the page module 
(not just one of its columns). It has been used to first select the 
element type with the "new CE wizard" and then select the column to put 
it in. And with Grid Elements it is used to trigger the drag in wizard.

>> on the other hand buttons have been moved to
>> places where they are just wasting space (add CE after another CE),
>> which leads to a signifcant change of the overall height of the page
>> module forcing the user to scroll down.
>
> That button was there in TemplaVoilà and people liked it. It is far more
> logical than a button in the title bar of a CE to add a new element
> below. The new CE button is now in the location where the new element
> will be placed.

So it is wasting a space that is currently not in use.
I agree that a position on top of the element is suboptimal as well, but 
actually it would have been enough to keep it at the bottom of the 
element but still inside it.

>> Not reloading the page module with drag & drop IMHO is questionable as
>> well, since you won't notice changes made by other editors early enough.
>
> If you open a page for editing there is a message that another editor
> has started modifying that page. That should trigger you into asking the
> other editor if he's still busy.

First of all, you can't do that when working on different content 
elements, since you will only get that notice, when editing the page 
itself. And of course this only works for small teams but not in 
enterprise situations with lots of editors working in different locations.

> Reloading the page after drag&drop is something that nobody does,
> because it causes an interruption in working on that page.

Reloading currently is the only way to get all the necessary information 
about the current state of all elements on that page. The longer you 
stay while this status gets changed by other editors, the more you will 
possibly break with your Drag & Drop actions.

>> Especially when you enable copies with drag & drop you would have to
>> create ALL the classes, JS and HTML code for the newly created element
>> at the client side and modify the rest of the elements accordingly,
>> which is.much more complicated than a simple reload. (Maybe this is the
>> reason, why drag & drop currently only works while moving elements?)
>
> Maybe current drag&drop is simply a replacement for the sorting buttons?
> Other implementations of drag&drop for TYPO3 that I've seen don't have a
> drag&drop-copy action.

It's there in the page tree so you could expect it for content elements 
as well.

 > Besides, it only requires rendering the newly created element. No need
 > to "modify the rest of the elements accordingly".

You definitely have to modify the other elements, since they need to 
know about i.e. their new position and other things in relation to the 
copied element, otherwise the page module JS won't work properly anymore.

>> Currently our plan in the Grid Elements team is, to reenable the "old"
>> behaviour with Grid Elements and provide a slightly modified page module
>> with less waste of space, more functionality, active sorting buttons,
>> completely working drag & drop actions and drag in of new content
>> elements. After all we should take care of the needs of the users, which
>> seems to be slightly different to the perception of these needs within
>> the design team.
>
>> Maybe we can convince the core team to go this way together with us. :-)
>
> You know very well that the core team tries to make/keep the core as
> light weight as possible and have extra functionality in extensions from
> TER. Yes, there are a number of system extensions which should also be
> moved out of the core and work on that is slowly done; simulatestatic
> was first moved from the core code into a system extension and now
> finally moved to TER. If you want 'speaking URLs' you now have to
> install an extension like RealURL, CoolURI, simulatestatic, ...
>
> This has nothing to do with you or with gridelements. Some people want
> TemplaVoilà in the core, other want a news module in the core, etc.
> It should also be noted that being an extension has advantages over
> being part of the core. Updates are easier as an extension, you can add
> features any time

Neither do I expect Grid Elements to be part of the core completely nor 
do I insist on making it a sysext as well. "going this way together with 
us" just meant to work together in both teams regarding changes to the 
page module.

After all Grid Elements has been created on demand by the community and 
the community manager since we have been asked to take the next step 
after "backkend layouts" had been implemented into the 4.5 core. Maybe 
you can watch the video of my talk at T3CON12 in Stuttgart to get a 
better understanding on the history of this extension.

So I just would like to see more cooperation. i.e. it would have been 
easy to implement the working Drag & Drop feature of grid elements 
instead of rewriting it for 6.0 and there are lots of other features we 
could provide directly for the core instead of moving them into another 
hook.

Every developer be it a core dev, an extension dev or just a user of 
TYPO3 is invited to take part in the coding month and the code sprint in 
January 2013. You can even chose to be paid for the coding or provide it 
as your way of sponsoring.

Hopefully we can improve not just the page module experience but the 
list module as well this way.

Cheers

Joey

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