[TYPO3] No tutorials? Draft idea attached...

dave ashton dave at bassmedia.net
Thu Oct 5 13:26:29 CEST 2006


Yes I am guilty of too much ranting and not enough contributing.
I consider myself just past beginner level, so that’s where I'm coming from.
In a few years I may write a book....ahem!

As before, your words come from an experts point of view. You can do it, and
want lots of options and config. methods, which is what you need and why you
probably use typo3. Probably, other experts of other CMS's re-write the php
code to make it do exactly what they want.

Do you feel to get to the level of learning you have now with typo3 you
learnt in a systematic way and the process was straight forward?

I read on the net a java developer thought java would be easier to learn
than typo3 and typoscript!!
This is extreme, but if I was a person looking for a CMS solution, would I
pick typo3 after reading this or similar?
>From a beginners point of view, this can be an easy conclusion to make.

Maybe, I'm missing the point - if you want typo3's power and flexibility,
you have to just get on with the learning curve. It will get better, but
it’s a slow process.
If you want a shorter learning curve, but not as much flexibility and
functionality in the long run, use another.
However, you only truly see this after using the thing for a year or
two....ahem!



Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Tyler Kraft [mailto:headhunterxiii at yahoo.ca] 
Sent: 05 October 2006 11:58
To: typo3-english at lists.netfielders.de
Subject: Re: [TYPO3] No tutorials? Draft idea attached...

Hi

dave ashton wrote:

> I even looked into using joomla

EVIL DAVE! ;-)

> I've obviously stuck with typo3 as I've got over the 'wall' if you will. I
> have a set method to get a basic site up (made my own cheat sheet) and
> running and go into the object browser to change a few things around for
> extensions (after going through tsref loads of times!)

Did you publish it or make it into a newbie manual? If not, why not?

Maybe your answer to that question will help explain why there is a lack 
of documentation! Because people find it easier to rant than do 
something,a nd once they get to the point of being able to do something 
they need to earn a living also... so what do you propose? I'm happy to 
take month off and write documentation for you, as long as your going to 
pay my time, or else I need to earn an income somewhere else!



> It has taken 1 1/2 years to get to this point.
> I understand with loads of power comes a high learning curve. However, as
> with others, I felt this was to do with documentation, not realizing
> typoscript (notice 'script' in the word, i.e. scripting!!!!...ahem!) had
to
> be learnt aswell (lots of time needed!) Also, depending on how your setup,
> config., extensions have been put together depends on how other aspects of
> your install will work. (ooohhh, lots and lots of options which at first
> looks like an alien language!!!)

So what in your opinion is needed? A good document detailing how all 
parts interact for a newbie? (more of an overview that an example?)


> So, why have 3 or four ways to do the same job?? Is one better than
another?

Sometimes yes. But not all projects are the same so sometimes you need 
to do it a  completely different way to get the same results ;-)
(train or car - they both get you form London to Paris, but in some 
cases there are pros and cons to each one)

> Will in the future, typo3 developers split into factions who believe one
way
> is better than another and end up developing their own CMS with their own
> way of doing things?

No I don't think so (At least I hope not). Listen me and Dmitry both 
have very diff veiws about the better method of templating (perhaps he 
suspects I'm being old fashioned and stubborn  - I'm not I just will 
stay with what i think works the best until there is an advantage to 
switching to a new thing. ;-) But that doesn't really become an issue 
unless something I'm using or hes using becomes phased out and we are 
forced to change or diverge.

  Will people spend all their time learning all the
> different methods and not getting anything done? Will we all just become
> plumbers, as a pipe is a pipe?!!?

No because as you learn more things the way it fits together becomes 
easier to understand - which means I can usually know the quickest 
method to do something in a situation because I've done various methods 
- and its not always the same way thats the best/quickest ;-)



> 
> Lots of options is great, but when each option can take months to learn
and
> implement, especially for a beginner (..and is this way of learning the
best
> route??)
> I learnt to use 'css styled content' , 'template auto parser' and
'html/css
> styling' then import a dummy page tree, then style up the marker divs. Is
> this the best or most efficient way? I don't know!

Depends on you! I dont use template autoparser and I know that I have to 
choose some rendering method so CSC is the best option... It's not a 
timely thing for me to put markers in and decide the rendering 
extension. But thats because I know what i want to do and so I knwo that 
works best. but ina situation where Its not justa  website then I might 
write my own rendering extension and template.


> Therefore, I think there should be one method for all functionality, i.e.
> Templavoila for templating, indexed search for all searches, etc.
Extension
> developers can then develop off these extensions for their own
> functionality.
No, sorry that's rather narrow minded (and tbh a bit fascist IMHO) - if 
that's what you want then why not go back to Joomla!

Why TemplaVolia as opposed to the other method - they both work?! And 
not everyone perfers TV! So why force them to use what works best for 
Me, or for Dmitry, or for you? And I'd rather be able to just quickly 
add a new marker or slightly tweak my template html with out having to 
remap it all again.

Why use index search when I want to do a quick little search of two 
specific fields or a small section for a client (search for a solicitor 
name & postcode in a set of records on one site).


> At the end of the day, we're all web designers/ developers with different
> degrees of knowledge and experience with typo3 and I think the bottom line
> for all is to complete a job on time and deliver a good system, without
> spending all day and night for months working on things that seem like
they
> should take a quarter of the time.

So by eliminating choices in how to do something as you propose how will 
that speed up my job? As soon as something isn't the way i want it I 
need to figure otu a work around because you've removed all but one method?


> I think, although typo3 has been going for a few years, its early days,
> still. Hopefully, in a few years there will be standard ways of
implementing
> functionality, step-by-step documentation (put this here, change that
there
> - don't assume too much prior knowledge, which all developers
do....(talking
> to client "edit the config. Area"...client-"whats that, where does it
> live"??!!??!)

> It may not do what typo3 can do, but does the client know
> that?  ....no.

They do when you say, "Sorry it can't do that" or "That will cost you 
£3000" when all they want is a simple thing changed and you need to 
re-write or even worse write form scratch something becasue its not 
built in (but them M$ made a lot of cash doing that eh?)


> No CMS is perfect and being open source, all have to chip in, I just wish
it
> was just easier to bloody
learn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So write down what was lacking for you and made it hard to learn, ask 
what other found hard then write something to solve that issue!


> Last rant - I wish there were more English typo3 books, wish there were
more
> English typo3 books, wish there were more English typo3 books, wish there
> were more English typo3 books........................!
Write one - you'll sell it for the sounds of it ;-)
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