[TYPO3] No tutorials?

Jamie Lawrence Jenner forums at webgremlins.net
Tue Oct 3 10:40:12 CEST 2006


No problem, (shake hands) :-)

1) I agree, i have found some great docs, but only after searching far and
wide, but some seemed a little too technical for beginner.

For sure i agree Typo3 is a constant learning curve, but we arent all
developing entereprise level systems or writing our own extensions.

The ISP i trained, develop small to medium sized, local government, council
sites, some with up to 10 sub sites within them, whihc have your standard
forums, news, newsletter etc. Sure, to develop custom extensions they would
have more to learn, Typo3 architecture, Typo3 API, & PHP , i didnt cover
these, they want to be administrators, not fully fledged typo3 developers,
but they had enough klnowledge to start reading the more technical docs,
some have gone onto developing some extensions already, while others are
happy to be adminsrators. They have enough knowledge to create sites using
extensions, templates, typoscript menus  etc.

2) for sure, commercial do have more, but i agree, they dont come anywhere
near Typo3 in functionality and certainly not for free

3) Well i really wasnt, believe me or not

4) This is my site from my old business, havent touched it in ages. Shouls
take it down really. Im a contractor now


But the fact that people write every month asking what simple terms are says
something, ie they either cant find the docs, or the docs arent clear
enough. Sure we can put it down to them not looking hard enough, or not
being bothered to look, but, if there was somewhere they could go to start
as a complete newbie, which doesnt start off all tecchy, then works more
towards other technical articles would be ideal.  Im not saying that it is a
Typo3 thing, maybe it is just open source in general, but there are
certainly other open source (so i have heard) with better documentation. And
i am certainly not intending to insult anyone by saying this, so pleas, do
not think that i am. I applore all those Typo3 advocates on this list, i
have been helped many times, and if it wasnt for their support and hard
work, we wouldnt even be here having this discussion.

I am going to be contacting the ISP to see if they will make their training
material available, as i believe it is an excellent getting started kit in
Typo3. For sure they arent going to be fully fledged developers, but they
will certainly understand the concepts of Typo3, and be able to create
sites, users, user groups, work spaces,
Jamie





-----Original Message-----
From: typo3-english-bounces at lists.netfielders.de
[mailto:typo3-english-bounces at lists.netfielders.de]On Behalf Of Tyler Kraft
Sent: 02 October 2006 17:59
To: typo3-english at lists.netfielders.de
Subject: Re: [TYPO3] No tutorials?


Sorry for the mis-understanding, as I didn't intend it as an insult. The
intended point being you were "the kettle calling the pot black" to some
degree in my eyes.


1) Yes I agree the documentation could be much better, but actually I
think its the organisation of the documentation that lacks not the
documentation itself. All I ever routinely use for documentation is
tsref, tsconfig, the htmlarea manual. anything else gets a cursory
glance occasionally - why? Because those are the main foundations of any
site, and if you can't figure it out using them then usually your not
thinking the problem throught fully I've found.

2) fine but most commercial CMS cost money, and that therefore pays for
the documentation AFAIK. And other open source CMS that I've
tried/looked at don't even hold a candle to typo3, so writing
documentation for a simple "paperclip" of a CMS isn't really comparable
to writing documentation for typo3

3) It definatly sounded that way if you ask me.

4) numerous broken links actually! The point was that even on a small
site like yours (not meant in a demeaning way but as a comparison)
keeping track of everything and ensuring it is up to date is difficult.
To imply that that has not been done good enough with reference material
for T3 which is a huge complex, ever evolving thing... a bit of whinge
really

Maybe I'm just getting cynical about every month there being the same
silly newbie questions where people haven't invested there own time
investigating for a solution. And then they start to complain that it's
hard, the documentation isn't good, no one responds to there questions
on the list....

So be realistic - a few day course and people will be able to develop
with it. Some how after 4 years with it I doubt that. Sure maybe a
simple little site, but I would guess that anything complex will be
beyond their reach.

So my objection here is that one could get the same type of thing as you
described in the getting started documentation (as it seems to have all
the things you said you wrote the documentation for).

The difference is that it doesn't unrealistically then tell people they
are typo3 developers. A three day course might just about start to cover
how to get started - it does not make a developer though, so Jamie lets
not say it does.
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