[Typo3] Some feedback to TYPO3 marketeers

Mon Oct 17 21:00:57 CEST 2005

*standing ovation*

:-)  Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious!

Christopher wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> On 15/10/05, Simon Hobbs <info at urbits.com> wrote:
> 
>>To Advocates of TYPO3,
>>
>>I saw some threads about "marketing to U.S." and I thought there are
>>some people on this list that might find my opinion useful -
>>particularly from a marketing perspective.
>>
>>I have officially stopped pursuing TYPO3 as a CMS platform. The main
>>reason for my decision is nothing to do with TYPO3 itself, but that the
>>resources are substandard and in disarray. The second reason is that the
>>learning curve is too high, and installation too problematic. I don't
>>think any of you are ignorant of that (eg.
>>http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/StartHere/ ).
>>
>> From what I have read about TYPO3, there are some great features which
>>I was looking forward to try. But I couldn't install TYPO3 _at all_ on
>>Linux OR Windows and this is a real problem for TYPO3 advocates. While I
>>waited  for help from the linux-installation list, I thought I would
>>compare my experience by installing a Drupal site - it took me 30
>>minutes. Thus Drupal became the first CMS system I installed.
>>
>>One gobsmacking thing for me was the hoopla concerning imagemagick. The
>>versioning issue is truly shocking. I should have been able to simply
>>install a single php file of "wrapper functions" appropriate to the
>>version of imagemagick I was running.
>>
>>But to be more general, there are other things about TYPO3 which make it
>>  difficult to market.
>>
>>The first of these things is the accessibility of expertise and
>>networking tools. The large majority of people using cms tools are
>>laypeople building small sites. Something like Drupal is always going to
>>be more accessible and more enjoyable. Just compare using a newsreader
>>with a beautiful forum like drupal.org.
>>
>>Your response might be: that your target market is large companies. One
>>benefit is that T3 is an open-licenced solution with flexibility and
>>robustness. But none of that comes across to the average middle-manager
>>unless it is properly sold. You need well resourced developers who can
>>demonstrate the value of TYPO3. Some products sell themselves, but a CMS
>>is sold by people. So forget the "marketing strategy", if anyone has any
>>spare energy they should put it into helping other developers by
>>improving the tools and resources.
>>
>>My final point about marketing image concerns Kasper's Korner. Kasper is
>>giving the community an image problem by imposing a "Moral Licence" on
>>the software (http://typo3.org/community/people/kaspers-korner/ ). In
>>the context of his faith, he himself is not God, so therefore he is in
>>no position to sit in judgement of what constitutes "proper" material
>>for a TYPO3 based website.
>>
>>Where I am from, people consider environmentalists to be "extremists",
>>so do i take it that Kasper believes that Jesus is some sort of
>>consumption loving capitalist? My emotional response to Kasper's Moral
>>Licence is very common amongst non-Christians, and I contend that
>>overall it puts people off TYPO3. Kasper should re-assess his position
>>and ask himself whether God wants him to alienate people, or rather
>>prefers him to influence through his actions as exemplified by Kasper's
>>Saviour.
>>
>>I wish you all the best with TYPO3.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry you haven't had more success with Typo3, but I think it's
> fallacious to equate the difficulties you've had with any major part
> of the marketing effort in North America - after all, Typo3 is no more
> difficult to install and use in the US than in Germany.
> 
> The learning curve, as you say is steep, but it's no more difficult to
> learn Typo3 than other systems of similar flexibility, and good though
> Drupal is (Typo3 could learn a little from its admin interface, for
> example...), it's simply not in the same class as tools like Typo3,
> Zope/Plone or Xaraya.
> 
> I also can't agree with your claim that "the large majority of people
> using cms tools are laypeople building small sites". I would say
> rather that a majority of people using cms tools are 'laypeople'
> OPERATING small sites built by others. Though it's time-consuming to
> learn to BUILD a Typo3 site, the length of time it takes people to get
> used to the backend interface and comfortable with adding, removing,
> updating and deleting content is about two or three hours of training.
> I trained two editors at a local performing arts venue in early
> September for 2.5 hours on Typo3; since then, they've added dozens of
> events, content elements and pages, and trained at least two others
> themselves, and I have received zero content management-related
> support requests...
> 
> You're no doubt right that a system as complex as Typo3 is pretty
> difficult for a non-developer or person who hasn't got the _time_ to
> learn Typoscript etc, to use to build a site by him/herself, and more
> than any other thing you've mentioned, this sounds like a marketing
> issue. Typo3 needs a significant investment in time to learn to use;
> for people developing multiple sites (developers) or those who can
> afford to take the time to learn it, Typo3's power and flexibility are
> unparallelled. For somebody who needs a single DIY site in a hurry,
> it's almost certainly not the right tool.
> 
> On the other hand, as I mentioned, learning to _use_ a Typo3 site
> requires a small investment in time and places _significant_ power in
> the hands of the end user if it's been set up and built by someone who
> knows how.
> 
> Maybe you're right that Kasper's Korner contributes to some image
> problem, though I admit I really can't understand why. He's not asking
> that you _share_ his beliefs; just think of it as the purchase price -
> you get the software in exchange for _considering_ Kasper's opinion,
> and you don't even have to agree, you can go ahead and use the
> software if you like in any case.
> 
> A year or so ago, I was preparing to bid on a project that I'd have
> liked to use Typo3 for; the site was  in what I perceived to be a grey
> area with respect to Kasper's preferences, so I asked him about it.
> His response was (paraphrased) "Thanks for asking, I don't agree with
> that, but go ahead if you like and just don't tell me about it." _I_
> didn't want to do that, so I wrote the proposal for the project with
> another system in mind (the point being that the decision was up to
> me).
> 
> The ImageMagick thing is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Since I
> first used Typo3 almost three years ago, sunsite.dk has offered free
> downloads of static IM binaries for most common  systems. Sunsite is
> linke from the home page of typo3.org and the binaries are frequently
> mentioned in the install archive...
> 
> Finally, I can't help but feel this statement is just sour grapes:
> 
> "...the resources are substandard and in disarray"
> 
> A bit of disarray I grant you, but there is _no_ other open source cms
> whose documentation can compare in completeness and breadth to Typo3's
> (in fact, neither can the documentation of any of the commercial cms
> products I have used). Here's 'everything you need':
> 
> GETTING STARTED
> 
> Installation:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_inst_upgr/Upgrade/
> 
> Getting to know the system:
> http://typo3.org/doc.0.html?&tx_extrepmgm_pi1%5BextUid%5D=491&cHash=9241ee54f7
> 
> 
> TEMPLATING
> 
> Basic TS site setup:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_tut_n1/
> 
> Alternate templating systems:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_tut_templselect/ OR
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_tut_ftb1/
> 
> 
> TYPOSCRIPT
> 
> About TS templates:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_tstemplates/
> 
> Basic TS reference:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_tsbyex/
> 
> Dozens of working TS samples (a gold mine for menus alone...):
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/typo3/testsite-3.8.0.tar.gz?download OR
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/typo3/testsite-3.8.0.zip?download
> 
> Advanced TS reference:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_tsref/
> 
> 
> EXTENSION DEVELOPMENT
> 
> API reference:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_api/
> 
> Doxygen API reference:
> http://typo3.org/fileadmin/typo3api-3.8.0/
> 
> More API reference and extension-building tools:
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/extdeveval/
> 
> 
> VIDEOS (for heaven's sakes, _videos_)
> 
> http://typo3.org/documentation/videos/
> 
> 
> ...and in addition to 'everything you need,' there are the mailing
> lists, list archives and wiki.typo3.org.  Please don't try to tell us
> that the documentation is 'substandard' ;-)
> 
> 
> -Christopher