[Typo3] Some feedback to TYPO3 marketeers

[Simon Hobbs]

Hi Christoph

Thanks for your consideration. You covered a lot of points very well.

Christoph Koehler wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:54:23 -0500, Simon Hobbs <info at urbits.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have officially stopped pursuing TYPO3 as a CMS platform. The main  
>> reason for my decision is nothing to do with TYPO3 itself, but that 
>> the  resources are substandard and in disarray. The second reason is 
>> that the  learning curve is too high, and installation too 
>> problematic. I don't  think any of you are ignorant of that (eg.  
>> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/StartHere/ ).
> 
> 
> It always depends how much time you are willing to invest. Typo3 does 
> take  a long time to learn, longer than for example Mambo or Drupal. I 
> cannot  speak for Drupal since I have never tried it, but I know T3 is 
> more  powerful than Mambo for sure, and my personal site, which is 
> pretty small,  didn't take very long to implement into Typo3 once I had 
> the template  build.
> 
I can see from the design that T3 would be quick for small sites once 
learnt and installed. But no quicker, for small sites, than other 
less-featured CMS.

I agree it is more powerful, and regret not being involved.

>>  From what I have read about TYPO3, there are some great features 
>> which  I was looking forward to try. But I couldn't install TYPO3 _at 
>> all_ on  Linux OR Windows and this is a real problem for TYPO3 
>> advocates. While I  waited  for help from the linux-installation list, 
>> I thought I would  compare my experience by installing a Drupal site - 
>> it took me 30  minutes. Thus Drupal became the first CMS system I 
>> installed.
> 
> I for one did not have any problems installing it on my hosts Linux  
> servers or at home locally on Windows XP. I am sorry you had trouble 
> with  that; bugs happen, and I am sure the developers will gladly fix them.
> 
Agreed.

You might note that the installation guide for Windows has no 
information about trouble-shooting a failed installation. Maybe I could 
have asked the list but at that stage I'd spent too much time on my 
Linux install. However, I still wanted to explore, so I decided to see 
in the Windows would work out of the box. It didn't, I quit.

> 
>> One gobsmacking thing for me was the hoopla concerning imagemagick. 
>> The  versioning issue is truly shocking. I should have been able to 
>> simply  install a single php file of "wrapper functions" appropriate 
>> to the  version of imagemagick I was running.
> 
> This is hardly Typo3's fault. You can use GraphicsMagick, with a more  
> stable API; there are wrapper functions for the different IM versions, 
> and  you can configure all that in the install tool.
> 
It is more the installation path I followed was a rocky path and I gave 
up. I myself have an image manipulation tool mysel, it uses GD _only_ 
and it works on multiple versions of GD. Sure it is simple, which is why 
I was looking at T3 to save me some development time.

I'm sure there was a successful path for me. But I just found the 
configuration of T3 very over-wrought. It mentions GD, IM and GM, plus 
it has about 10 config settings for getting IM to work, and then states 
that some of the settings might not work. Hopefully the next version 
uses only one of these three graphics libraries.

To be clear, this was not the only problem I had.

>> But to be more general, there are other things about TYPO3 which make 
>> it    difficult to market.
>>
>> The first of these things is the accessibility of expertise and  
>> networking tools. The large majority of people using cms tools are  
>> laypeople building small sites. Something like Drupal is always going 
>> to  be more accessible and more enjoyable. Just compare using a 
>> newsreader  with a beautiful forum like drupal.org.
> 
> I agree a forum would be easier to use than a newsreader for most 
> people.  While there isn't an official forum for T3, there are probably 
> some  unofficial ones (I know of a few German ones).
> 
Hopefully, many agree and it will be changed. Someone mentioned old 
posts in response to a similar letter a while ago. I'd love to search 
for them myself, but it is not that easy.

>> Your response might be: that your target market is large companies. 
>> One  benefit is that T3 is an open-licenced solution with flexibility 
>> and  robustness. But none of that comes across to the average 
>> middle-manager  unless it is properly sold. You need well resourced 
>> developers who can  demonstrate the value of TYPO3. Some products sell 
>> themselves, but a CMS  is sold by people. So forget the "marketing 
>> strategy", if anyone has any  spare energy they should put it into 
>> helping other developers by  improving the tools and resources.
> 
> Being worked on as we speak!
> 
Glad to hear, that is the most important thing.

>> My final point about marketing image concerns Kasper's Korner. Kasper 
>> is  giving the community an image problem by imposing a "Moral 
>> Licence" on  the software 
>> (http://typo3.org/community/people/kaspers-korner/ ). In  the context 
>> of his faith, he himself is not God, so therefore he is in  no 
>> position to sit in judgement of what constitutes "proper" material  
>> for a TYPO3 based website.
> > 
> It is merely Kasper's wish (and this is by no means legally binding) 
> that  his product not be used for anything that goes against his 
> beliefs. I  think that is reasonable. And since they are his beliefs, I 
> suppose he can  specify what is and is not proper in his opinion. Again, 
> this is not  legally binding, so if you have a problem with his beliefs, 
> don't regard  them and do it anyway.
> 
>> Where I am from, people consider environmentalists to be 
>> "extremists",  so do i take it that Kasper believes that Jesus is some 
>> sort of  consumption loving capitalist? My emotional response to 
>> Kasper's Moral  Licence is very common amongst non-Christians, and I 
>> contend that  overall it puts people off TYPO3. Kasper should 
>> re-assess his position  and ask himself whether God wants him to 
>> alienate people, or rather  prefers him to influence through his 
>> actions as exemplified by Kasper's  Saviour.
> 
> 
> I don't really understand how you come up with Jesus being a 
> consumption  loving capitalist. Maybe you could clarify?
> As for reassessing his position, I don't know if he would. He probably  
> believes that God will use his work for His purposes, so it doesn't 
> matter  much whether or not people are put off.
> God wants Christians to profess Him before the world, and that He will  
> bless that according to His will; in this context that might mean 
> growth  for Typo3, whether or not some or most people are turned off by 
> his faith.
> I am a Christian and became interested in Typo3 because Kasper is a  
> Christian as well. I guess it works both ways.
> 
The Moral Licence in itself is not right or wrong. Simply, _if_ the 
marketing drive is towards non-Christians, then the Moral Licence has a 
negative impact. I firmly agree that the Moral Licence is not legally 
binding.

I realise the "consumption loving capital" remark was too colourful. I 
will clarify my point. Remember, this is about impressions and the 
feeling _I_ have of being judged.

1. Kasper states:  "...don't use TYPO3 for ... extreme political 
propaganda."
2. I am an environmentalist. The green movement in Australia is commonly 
  considered to be extremist, and the environmental message (such as 
global warming) to be propagandist. I have more than one Christian 
friend who believes this!
3. So I think: what is Kasper saying about me? What does Kasper think of 
what I believe in. This makes me feel unwholesome.
4. Kasper then says: "You'll be the judge yourself, but please respect 
this wish!" I realise that this is true, but only on an intellectual 
level. I already feel _judged_ by Kasper. Who is Kasper to judge, Jesus?
5. To round off, this is the experience of many non-Christians to the 
Kasper's corner and to the "Quicksite" package. It negatively impacts 
your marketing efforts.
6. Hence it adversely effects your marketing push for adoption by 
non-Christians.

> I appreciate your comments, you have some good points! Most of those 
> are  known issues and being worked on especially in the following 
> months. There  is a new release planned for December this year that 
> should fix the most  annoying bugs, and the release after that will see 
> many usability  improvements. Check 
> http://typo3.org/development/roadmap/ for a roadmap  and some planned 
> features.

Thanks Christoff, I am confident that you are all going in the right 
direction. I am about to re-install Fedora on my test machine. I might 
try T3 again.

Regards
Simon