[Typo3] Some feedback to TYPO3 marketeers

[Christopher]

Hi there,

On 15/10/05, Simon Hobbs <info at urbits.com> wrote:
> To Advocates of TYPO3,
>
> I saw some threads about "marketing to U.S." and I thought there are
> some people on this list that might find my opinion useful -
> particularly from a marketing perspective.
>
> I have officially stopped pursuing TYPO3 as a CMS platform. The main
> reason for my decision is nothing to do with TYPO3 itself, but that the
> resources are substandard and in disarray. The second reason is that the
> learning curve is too high, and installation too problematic. I don't
> think any of you are ignorant of that (eg.
> http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/StartHere/ ).
>
>  From what I have read about TYPO3, there are some great features which
> I was looking forward to try. But I couldn't install TYPO3 _at all_ on
> Linux OR Windows and this is a real problem for TYPO3 advocates. While I
> waited  for help from the linux-installation list, I thought I would
> compare my experience by installing a Drupal site - it took me 30
> minutes. Thus Drupal became the first CMS system I installed.
>
> One gobsmacking thing for me was the hoopla concerning imagemagick. The
> versioning issue is truly shocking. I should have been able to simply
> install a single php file of "wrapper functions" appropriate to the
> version of imagemagick I was running.
>
> But to be more general, there are other things about TYPO3 which make it
>   difficult to market.
>
> The first of these things is the accessibility of expertise and
> networking tools. The large majority of people using cms tools are
> laypeople building small sites. Something like Drupal is always going to
> be more accessible and more enjoyable. Just compare using a newsreader
> with a beautiful forum like drupal.org.
>
> Your response might be: that your target market is large companies. One
> benefit is that T3 is an open-licenced solution with flexibility and
> robustness. But none of that comes across to the average middle-manager
> unless it is properly sold. You need well resourced developers who can
> demonstrate the value of TYPO3. Some products sell themselves, but a CMS
> is sold by people. So forget the "marketing strategy", if anyone has any
> spare energy they should put it into helping other developers by
> improving the tools and resources.
>
> My final point about marketing image concerns Kasper's Korner. Kasper is
> giving the community an image problem by imposing a "Moral Licence" on
> the software (http://typo3.org/community/people/kaspers-korner/ ). In
> the context of his faith, he himself is not God, so therefore he is in
> no position to sit in judgement of what constitutes "proper" material
> for a TYPO3 based website.
>
> Where I am from, people consider environmentalists to be "extremists",
> so do i take it that Kasper believes that Jesus is some sort of
> consumption loving capitalist? My emotional response to Kasper's Moral
> Licence is very common amongst non-Christians, and I contend that
> overall it puts people off TYPO3. Kasper should re-assess his position
> and ask himself whether God wants him to alienate people, or rather
> prefers him to influence through his actions as exemplified by Kasper's
> Saviour.
>
> I wish you all the best with TYPO3.


I'm sorry you haven't had more success with Typo3, but I think it's
fallacious to equate the difficulties you've had with any major part
of the marketing effort in North America - after all, Typo3 is no more
difficult to install and use in the US than in Germany.

The learning curve, as you say is steep, but it's no more difficult to
learn Typo3 than other systems of similar flexibility, and good though
Drupal is (Typo3 could learn a little from its admin interface, for
example...), it's simply not in the same class as tools like Typo3,
Zope/Plone or Xaraya.

I also can't agree with your claim that "the large majority of people
using cms tools are laypeople building small sites". I would say
rather that a majority of people using cms tools are 'laypeople'
OPERATING small sites built by others. Though it's time-consuming to
learn to BUILD a Typo3 site, the length of time it takes people to get
used to the backend interface and comfortable with adding, removing,
updating and deleting content is about two or three hours of training.
I trained two editors at a local performing arts venue in early
September for 2.5 hours on Typo3; since then, they've added dozens of
events, content elements and pages, and trained at least two others
themselves, and I have received zero content management-related
support requests...

You're no doubt right that a system as complex as Typo3 is pretty
difficult for a non-developer or person who hasn't got the _time_ to
learn Typoscript etc, to use to build a site by him/herself, and more
than any other thing you've mentioned, this sounds like a marketing
issue. Typo3 needs a significant investment in time to learn to use;
for people developing multiple sites (developers) or those who can
afford to take the time to learn it, Typo3's power and flexibility are
unparallelled. For somebody who needs a single DIY site in a hurry,
it's almost certainly not the right tool.

On the other hand, as I mentioned, learning to _use_ a Typo3 site
requires a small investment in time and places _significant_ power in
the hands of the end user if it's been set up and built by someone who
knows how.

Maybe you're right that Kasper's Korner contributes to some image
problem, though I admit I really can't understand why. He's not asking
that you _share_ his beliefs; just think of it as the purchase price -
you get the software in exchange for _considering_ Kasper's opinion,
and you don't even have to agree, you can go ahead and use the
software if you like in any case.

A year or so ago, I was preparing to bid on a project that I'd have
liked to use Typo3 for; the site was  in what I perceived to be a grey
area with respect to Kasper's preferences, so I asked him about it.
His response was (paraphrased) "Thanks for asking, I don't agree with
that, but go ahead if you like and just don't tell me about it." _I_
didn't want to do that, so I wrote the proposal for the project with
another system in mind (the point being that the decision was up to
me).

The ImageMagick thing is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Since I
first used Typo3 almost three years ago, sunsite.dk has offered free
downloads of static IM binaries for most common  systems. Sunsite is
linke from the home page of typo3.org and the binaries are frequently
mentioned in the install archive...

Finally, I can't help but feel this statement is just sour grapes:

"...the resources are substandard and in disarray"

A bit of disarray I grant you, but there is _no_ other open source cms
whose documentation can compare in completeness and breadth to Typo3's
(in fact, neither can the documentation of any of the commercial cms
products I have used). Here's 'everything you need':

GETTING STARTED

Installation:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_inst_upgr/Upgrade/

Getting to know the system:
http://typo3.org/doc.0.html?&tx_extrepmgm_pi1%5BextUid%5D=491&cHash=9241ee54f7


TEMPLATING

Basic TS site setup:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_tut_n1/

Alternate templating systems:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_tut_templselect/ OR
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_tut_ftb1/


TYPOSCRIPT

About TS templates:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_tstemplates/

Basic TS reference:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_tsbyex/

Dozens of working TS samples (a gold mine for menus alone...):
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/typo3/testsite-3.8.0.tar.gz?download OR
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/typo3/testsite-3.8.0.zip?download

Advanced TS reference:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_tsref/


EXTENSION DEVELOPMENT

API reference:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/doc_core_api/

Doxygen API reference:
http://typo3.org/fileadmin/typo3api-3.8.0/

More API reference and extension-building tools:
http://typo3.org/documentation/document-library/extdeveval/


VIDEOS (for heaven's sakes, _videos_)

http://typo3.org/documentation/videos/


...and in addition to 'everything you need,' there are the mailing
lists, list archives and wiki.typo3.org.  Please don't try to tell us
that the documentation is 'substandard' ;-)


-Christopher