[Typo3] just a word of praise!

McCluskey, Chris (ISD) Chris.McCluskey at isd.csa.scot.nhs.uk
Fri Jun 24 11:08:12 CEST 2005

Oh please, If you loved yourself anymore there would be lip marks on your

"The suggestion that dot-net, PHP, et al, "offers nothing that a
more generic web technology (like for example PHP or .Net) has to offer but
is more limiting" smells of naiveté or malicious ignorance.  Take your
pick." - That you can read maliciousness into my posts says a lot about your

Joey's post yesterday gave a good perspective of what people get out of
Typo3 - I liked the Lego analogy (although I didn't entirely agree with it).

This thread (with some notable exceptions - the post below included) has
been very interesting and has given me a perspective on Typo3 and why people
use it. The conclusion I've come to is that Typo3 is not as bad as I
thought, there is a place for it, it's just doesn't fit my purposes. I'm
glad that the developers are aware of usabilty issues wish them well in
addressing them.

Tom, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are less
cantankerous in real life. However, your post makes you seem like you can't
see beyond your own world (perhaps as a consequence of your years). Claiming
to be "open minded" smacks of delusion. 

Simply being 68 (why did you find it necessary to mention you age?) doesn't
mean those half your age are naive. To base all you assumptions on so little
(and by that I mean the information contained in the thread) is laughable. I
hope your contribution to the world over your 68 years has been more
signifcant (relatively speaking) than your contribution to this thread
otherwise your legacy is rather empty. 

kind regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: typo3-english-bounces at lists.netfielders.de
[mailto:typo3-english-bounces at lists.netfielders.de]On Behalf Of TomF
Sent: 23 June 2005 18:45
To: 'TYPO3 English'
Subject: RE: [Typo3] just a word of praise!

Having worked with -- actually designed and implemented -- a number of
content management systems over the years, I was introduced to typo3 about 3
months ago as my current task is to bring yet another such management system
on line -- and I don't care to once again design and implement from first
principles.  Current commercial offerings lack appeal for a number of
reasons.  The suggestion that dot-net, PHP, et al, "offers nothing that a
more generic web technology (like for example PHP or .Net) has to offer but
is more limiting" smells of naiveté or malicious ignorance.  Take your pick.

With a single email exchange with Kasper that clarified a misunderstanding
re portability and interoperability I have been able -- single handedly --
to bring a very complex server-based application to operating status in
barely three months.  This has been done by referring to the code base,
reading the many docs and mini-tutorials, reading the (mostly) helpful
emails from the list and, horror of horrors, doing a modicum of thinking. In
no instance has there been any confusion as to how things work (reading the
code readily resolves confusion or questions -- try that with various
commercial products -- including the dot-net platform, certain other CMS
open source initiatives built around PHP and Python, and so forth).  In
fact, getting through the typo3 document pile demands nothing other than a
little insight into the nature of what one wishes to find.

There are myriad things in life that improve with age, knowledge (for those
with open mind and a modicum of experience with which to start), well
conceptualized software, CPU designs (does anyone dare challenge the notion
that the Intel -86 CPU line has not improved since the earliest days of the
8080, 8086 and so on -- while retaining the underlying concepts and
structures?  It goes on and on, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. ...Evolutionary
improvement is just that, it goes on and on except in certain instances,
e.g., "This comes from the fact that Typo3 is quite old and this template is
so too."  At best, this quoted statement is logically inconsistent.

Granted, typo3 is not a place for the nose-pickers of the IT world to
linger.  It is a place for those of us who want, no need, to get high
quality work done.  The bits and pieces are there; they are accessible; they
are understandable; and, for the most part, of good quality --Issues and
questions most likely to emerge constantly bubble up through the medium of
the email list where they are generally resolved by communication with the
list members.

My place in life is not that of being an apologist for typo3, or anything
else for that matter.  After being trained by the Jesuits for many years,
apologetics have generally migrated to the bottom of my personal priority
list.  Typo3 needs no apologia in support of its place in the CMS world. In
my opinion, typo3 is a superb product, superbly conceptualized, and
wonderfully well rendered by large numbers of obviously talented persons.
This is said without equivocation -- and I'm too long of tooth (at age 68)
to share the camaraderie of snowboarders in the Alps.  Sharing their code
and ideas is well enough.  On the other hand, sharing a few lingering
moments over fine cigars with Kasper might make the trip worth while.

One last observation.  Found in Bedouin folklore is the expression, "the
dogs bark while the caravan passes in the night."  Typo3 passes the barking
dogs, quietly and without perturbation.

Thank you Kasper, thank those of you who unselfishly provide typo3
components and advice (I hope one day soon to be able to return a small part
to the effort), and, once again, thanks for a great product and your
patience in reading this if you've gotten this far.

Balsam Lake, WI (USA)

-----Original Message-----
From: typo3-english-bounces at lists.netfielders.de
[mailto:typo3-english-bounces at lists.netfielders.de] On Behalf Of McCluskey,
Chris (ISD)
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:50 AM
To: 'TYPO3 English'
Subject: RE: [Typo3] just a word of praise!

"keep cool" - I am, although it is quite sunny here. I didn't think you were
ranting, maybe just raving ;o)
OK, I'll give you the typoScript/api thing... although in this day and age
it does seem a bit like overkill. I realise that having something like
typoScript as part of the framework allows Typo3 to be much more flexible
than the likes of Mambo, PHP Nuke or whatever but it's not a great solution.
What is the solution? Quite frankly, I don't know but the developers need to
move away from the 'made by developers for developer' model that Typo3
currently is, after all why bother using Typo3 at all if you are a

This is really my main grumble about Typo3... it offers nothing that a more
generic web technology (like for example PHP or .Net) has to offer but is
more limiting. What I think would make Typo3 a good tool would be if it did
it in a (and I realise I'm repeating myself, but it is the central problem
with Typo3) more usable less fragmented way. 

"This comes from the fact that Typo3 is quite old and this template is so
too." - The age of Typo3 is apparent. It appears that it has been tweaked
over the years and had bit's bolted on left right and centre, which is why
it is so cumbersome. It really needs an overhaul or it will remain a
minority tool used by a group of enthusiasts.

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