[TYPO3-dev] Money money... and a donation project

[Ries van Twisk]

Erik,

I don't want to continue going you are right, now I am right and you  
are right bla bla bla... It's hard to communicate this over mail I  
guess and apparently you and me had vastly different clients.

You are right about the UI... and guess what, I had a client that  
needed a HUGE change on TYPO3's backend he paid yada yada yada...  
That's why I am saying,
if there is a need it will get implemented...

Lastly, I understand that there are properly much more 'nice to haves'  
and it's über cool to have 10 people sponsoring 500Eurie,
but why sponsor 500 eurie for a feature you don't really need??

over and out....

Ries

On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Erik Svendsen wrote:

> Ries van Twisk skrev:
>>
>>>
>>> Lets say that some feature costs 5000€ to implement. That might be  
>>> a too
>>> heavy cost for the customer.
>>
>> Then this only means the client really didn't needed it...
>>
>
> Sorry to say, but you are fundamentally wrong. Nearly all such  
> decisions
> are cost/benefit decisions, so you can't talk about need it or not  
> need
> it. Even mine and yours everyday decisions are mainly cost/benefit.
>
> Okay, you can manage well without a new feature, but a new feature  
> would
> for instance give you 10 % reduced cost in sales administration. But  
> if
> the cost/benefit is negative, the feature will never be made.
>
> But maybe 10 others will have exactly the same benefit (or need), and
> with splitting the cost on 11 instead of 1 everyone has positive
> cost/benefit (costs are lower than benefits), and the feature is  
> realised.
>
> This is a recurring problem in all innovation and development.
>
>>> That doesn't mean that it isn't a valuable
>>> feature and a needed feature.
>>
>> I agree, but if it's really needed it will get built..
>> I hope you get my point, right??
>
> No, it's a lot of things that we could say that are needed (or will  
> have
> impact) which are not built or made, because of missing link  
> (financing)
> between the innovator (developer) and the users which could benefit  
> from
> the innovation (feature).
>
> This is a problem that has been for years (hundred), and in some
> instances are far worse in the OSS Community.
>
>
>> I myself have been working on extensions that are worth over 100K,
>> the customer paid it because they needed it...
>
> Because the see the cost/benefit is positive.
>
> Personally I have seen features with much lower pricetag in larger
> systems than TYPO3 not been made because it was not high enough  
> benefit
> for one customer.
>>
>> You see what I mean? The difference is 'need' vs 'like to have looks
>> nice and cool'.
>>
>> Really, if there is a need... it will get implemented!!! See also
>> Dmitry's points....
>
> In my opinion this isn't true.
>
> And a lot of people in the TYPO3 community sees a backend with a  
> better
> UI as needed (most customers to). Personally I loose project because  
> of
>  TYPO3 UI. But I can't afford to pay for a better UI, even with the
> project I loose.
>
> There is a need for better UI in TYPO3, very little happens. Because  
> the
> benefit is small for each of us, but probably large for the TYPO3 as  
> whole.
>
>>
>>            regards, Ries van Twisk
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> tags: Freelance TYPO3 Glassfish JasperReports JasperETL Flex Blaze-DS
>> WebORB PostgreSQL DB-Architect
>> email: ries at vantwisk.nl        web:   http://www.rvantwisk.nl/     
>> skype:
>> callto://r.vantwisk
>> Phone: +1-810-476-4196    Cell: +593 9901 7694                   SIP:
>> +1-747-690-5133
>>
>
> Personally I think Stig has a very good point (and idea). There is a  
> lot
> of features which could be better or new one which need a system where
> the idea of the developer can be combined with people which sees  
> benefit
> in such a feature. One of them will maybe never pay the price, but  
> there
> are 10 which want to pay 1/10 of the price.
>
> I also think such a system will drive development against
> customer-oriented feaures, because features which are mostly  
> interesting
> for developers never will be funded.
>
> Regards
>
> Erik Svendsen
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> TYPO3-dev at lists.netfielders.de
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			regards, Ries van Twisk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tags: Freelance TYPO3 Glassfish JasperReports JasperETL Flex Blaze-DS  
WebORB PostgreSQL DB-Architect
email: ries at vantwisk.nl        web:   http://www.rvantwisk.nl/     
skype: callto://r.vantwisk
Phone: +1-810-476-4196    Cell: +593 9901 7694                   SIP:  
+1-747-690-5133