[TYPO3-dev] Moving the topic of the discussion a little bit --Based of thread "Change roadmap..."

[JoH]

>>> So why not simply switch to API and forget all about this inflexible
>>> marker stuff?
>>
>> Very easy: Because 10thousands of people in the world are doing it
>> this way.
>
> Gee. I wonder why the heck did we chose OpenOffice as a standard
> documentation editor when millions are using Word?

Well - this example should have been:
Why doesn't Microsoft ship OO instead of Word to their clients, since MS
developers should know, that it's code is much better?
But exactly this is what you are proposing: Kick everything that makes out
TYPO3 as a unique product.
Kick the great inventions Kasper has made during the last 8 years in favour
of something that will make it just a framework for some techniques you
could even use without TYPO3.

>> What really annoys me ist the way how some of the developers are
>> going to replace things with so called "standards" instead of
>> improving the existing things to become "standards" as well.
>> "TypoScript sucks - it has to be replaced with XML"
>> "Hooks are crap - we need a registry"
>> "Marker based templating is uncool - we need smarty"
>> "Look, Mom, Puma shoes are ugly - all the other kids have got Nikes"

>  TypoScript sucks so badly, it will NEVER become a standard of ANYTHING
outside TYPO3.

Well - you should definitely have a look at the upcoming TYPO3 cookbook,
where we show you things done with TypoScript that prove how versatile and
powerful it can be.

> Hooks are crap, because they are in reality a "workaround" of XCLASS
> limitations and a very good sign of bad object design.

IMHO "hooks" is nothing but another name for a registry of functions.
Maybe there's a way to improve this registry, but I think a registry is not
that bad.

> Smarty is _clearly_ superior to TYPO3 marker-based templating as it
> provides better separation of business logics and presentation. Martin
> gave you one very good example with looping but it doesn't end there.

Maybe you didn't understand the meaning of "separation" but AFAIK smarty
does just the contrary: It mixes up logics and presentation completely,
forcing the template designer to think like a programmer.

>> After all there is no real "standard" and you should always stick to
>> the solution that serves your needs best.
>
> That's exactly what we are rooting for. Smarty suites my needs a lot
> better than TypoScript, and not because it's "standard", but because
> it's better. ADOdb is better than t3div_db and DBAL. Et cetera.

There is always something missing in your sentences: The words "for me".
Smarty might be better for you, but for a big percentage of the TYPO3 users
TypoScript is the way to go.
So why not find a way of keeping TypoScript and implementing the possibility
to use other templating techniques as well?
Not to mention the fact that TypoScript is much more than just a templating
engine.
Again: TYPO3 is a framework and IMHO a framework should not restrict the
users but give them more options and freedom of choice.

>> One of these needs is: My sites should be working properly after an
>> update without too many hassles.
>
> I'm with you on that. That's why we are discussing where 5.0 needs to
> be, not 4.5.

Well - as far as I understood the details you described of your vision of
TYPO3 5.0 this sounds like a fork to me.

BTW: If all those things that make out current TYPO3 are so badly written,
sucking and crappy solutions: Why are you using it then?

Joey

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